This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I suppose part of me is curious whether all our replies to JD/motteposter/other alts are going to end up on SneerClub one day, or whether it’s some other kind of troll.
Why do you think it's wrong? I mean, I agree that it is wrong, but this place isn't for saying what is, it's for exploring why what is, is. Surely you have some starting conception of why white nationalism is not benign and free association can be harmful, so start there and follow the chain of logic.
I seem to recall that you've asked questions similar to this of me directly a couple times, I gave what I thought were good replies, and you never responded. In fact, I don't recall you ever responding to people giving good rebuttals of WN ideas you've brought up, of which it seems to me there have been many. If you genuinely cannot generate good arguments against WN ideas yourself and are posting those arguments here in hopes of finding such arguments, it seems to me that at some point, you would either comment to express thanks for having such arguments provided, or conversely point out why the arguments provided aren't good enough. You don't though, do you? You only ever seem to Just Ask Questions.
More options
Context Copy link
Don't be low effort? I guess you have tried but figured that white nationalism is basically correct. You're here to either explore the chance your wrong with people who are willing to put in more effort, or much more likely you're doing 4D chess because you find your own ideas on the matter compelling. You've basically been outed as bad faith, and that is the issue at hand. The other option is you're here to steelman the best arguments against your ideas so you can work away in private to dismantle them rhetorically.
I think you may have some strange meta personality such that you are the person who has the visceral hatred.
Why don't you just speak in the first person about your own ideas in a direct way?
More options
Context Copy link
If you’re genuinely not trolling (likelihood: 5%) then maybe reach out to the mods privately and see if you can verify your identity semi-anonymously (prove that your IP is real and non-VPN? Something like that)
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link