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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   2704 thread views

Wellness Wednesday for November 15, 2023

The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:

  • Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.

  • Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.

  • Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.

  • Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).

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It's not really obvious to me that the latter is healthier than the former. Responding to all things with serene indifference seems like a pretty shitty and even self-centred way to proceed through life. I guess it's just part and parcel of the way that people tend to pathologize negative thoughts and negativity as being 'unhealthy'.

Plus, I personally find as a negative self-talker that acknowledging my negative self-talk reflexes just makes it worse. Now instead of thinking about whatever bad event set me off, I'm thinking about how stupid and irrational and unhealthy and undisciplined I am for engaging in negative self-talk.

(Not OP) It's not serene indifference as much as understanding the nature of your limits, and the role externalities play in your existence.

Self-Love and Self-Hatred are two sides of the same coin. They are self-obsession. Thinking your farts are roses or you're utterly worthless are both unhealthy paradigms. You can't have an accurate view of yourself, much less the world, if you can't balance it out a bit.

Most people need more self-hatred IME, but it's not a vast majority or anything.

Oh, it's very selfish, no question. And it's probably not very healthy, but as I said elsewhere, I'm not religious - that applies to modern health-worship as well as Christianity.

Indifference isn't always a "healthy" response, but it can be. Every situation is different and there are many good and bad ways to think about each one.

Now instead of thinking about whatever bad event set me off, I'm thinking about how stupid and irrational and unhealthy and undisciplined I am for engaging in negative self-talk.

I was going to mention this but didn't want to make things too complicated. You are allowed to have the negative self talk, but then you have to practice the rephrasing even if you don't feel it. Would you talk to your friend like that? How would you think about things if it was your friend and not you? And actually think it "out loud".

On negativity - I argue negativity is unhealthy. I know what you mean, it's no good thinking everything is great when it's not, but you can still maintain good vibes while acknowledging and fixing mistakes.

I don't really get the question. I'm not my own friend. For a start, I can't leave or abandon myself. I have to be nice to my friends, and besides, I picked them so I like them. I didn't pick myself.

At the same time, this means I can't really trust my friends to be honest about me. When they say I look good, that's just them being good friends. I actually know I look small, fat and weak. Whereas if a stranger online tells me that I'm weak, lazy and pathetic, that's probably because it's true.

Okay, you didn't pick yourself, but you're going to spend the rest of your life with yourself, so you might as well treat yourself right and be your own cheerleader. It is not being "honest" to be hyper-critical and beat yourself up all the time. It is not useful. It is a self-reinforcing bad habit. It is a cognitive distortion. It is a trapped prior. But there are other ways of being that are just as honest but far more energizing.

Is being my own uncritical cheerleader actually the right thing to do? I mean, ultimately if I wanted unconditional love, I have friends and family who care about me. And yet, despite their love, I am kind of a fuckup and a loser and not very happy with my life of no money, no bf, and hating my body. Clearly, love isn't all you need - at some point I needed discipline or criticism. And though that's my fault for rejecting or shying away from those things earlier in my life, but if people around me won't provide that or can't be trusted to do so or if I'm too brittle to accept criticism from others, I have to provide that for myself.

Whereas if a stranger online tells me that I'm weak, lazy and pathetic, that's probably because it's true.

I agree with most of what you wrote above this, though I'm ignorant of if it is actually true if you look small, fat, or weak. But I'm not sure how you land on the conclusion that a stranger online telling you these things is an indication that these things are true. Strangers online are not known for their honesty, nor are they known for their great judgment. I think it's quite possible that they're telling you this because it's true, but I'm skeptical that it's probable. If a stranger online told you you were strong, conscientious, and great, would you also presume that it's probably because it's true?

No. They're just being nice. But there's no reason for someone to make a false criticism of me. But also I find the criticism of others fits better with my own negative self talk.

Reframing negative thoughts means detaching from the part of your self that generates these negatives thoughts. You won't end up "responding to all things with serene indifference" because what you are detaching from is your inner thoughts and not the outside world.

Nor is it about pathologizing negative thoughts. In fact, the primary thing that changes is that you start dealing with them head on:

  • Step 0: avoid activities in life because they cause you negative emotions (e.g. I won't go to the party because nobody wants to hang out with me) and instead numb yourself using drugs, alcohol, video games, social media etc. Since you didn't accomplice anything you now start to form this habit of generating negative thoughts that explain your behavior (e.g. nobody wants to be friends with me)
  • Step 1: become aware of this cognitive trap and try to instead suppress your negative thoughts (e.g. I will go to the party even knowing that this will make me anxious and panicky and I will try my best)
  • Step 2: cognitively reframe and realize that your negative thoughts are an ingrained habit that isn't useful for you and try to change it (e.g. I will go to the party because I am good enough that there will be some people to talk to and hang out with)

You'll still experience emotions and thoughts about things in the world. But now you will be in a better position to respond to them in the way that you want.

Watch this video: Why it's Actually Valuable to be Detached

I don't think this really rings true. Yes, relentless negative thoughts are unpleasant to deal with. But they don't cause me to avoid activities. I still regularly go the gym or go to work even if it feels terrible or if it's a tremendous effort.

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