site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of November 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

5
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Unfortunately for the Palestinians, conventional militaries able and willing to invade a terrorist state already entrenched in an urban warfare setting don't magically appear from wishing.

I don’t know why you are talking about invasions in response to a post when I explicitly said I was referring to options other than invasion.

There are plenty of regional and international actors who would be happy to see Hamas eliminated. Egypt is an obvious one. Not to mention actors within Palestine. However, due to Netanyahu's choices, there were more on October 8 than now.

I know you were referring to options other than invasion. I just think you were exposing your lack of seriousness by doing so.

I am talking about invasions because Hamas already established what is functionally a revaunchist police state by literally throwing the previous regime off the roof and not facing notable civil resistance sense. It is not and was not going to be dislodged from political and civil control of the Gaza Strip absent military force, of which there was no viable domestic usurption base due to having shot or thrown the relevant competitors to their deaths, which leaves only external military intervention to seize control of the population and state aparatus that controls the population, meaning invasion.

While other international actors would have been happy to see Hamas eliminated, they notably weren't going to be doing it themselves, which brings back the direct question of 'who.'

Which you have still avoided answering.