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People have already noticed this IRL and people already accept it just fine, no radical anti-racist ideology needed. It's just the reality of the situation, sans any sort of ideology, that this sort of bias is fully and openly accepted.
But to the actual point of the thread, I think you are missing the point. I don't think sulla is describing a crime model that's de-biased "naively," but rather one that's de-biased in the most likely way that it is to be de-biased, which is by explicitly putting the thumb on the scale against disfavored groups such as whites and men. A universe in which real de-biasing efforts implemented by real institutions tend to follow some "naive" implementation rather than a politically convenient one seems like a neat universe to live in, I imagine.
Yes, but I could probably have been more clear: I am not claiming that society will demand AI models that necessarily treat men more fairly than we do today! A model with no anti-bias applied will consider men by by default to be extremely likely offenders, especially for violent crime. It is likely that any model can get a good training score by just looking at the gender and ethnicity, and if it's e.g. an Asian woman just let her off the hook immediately.
This effect will be sufficiently extreme to get noticed, and counteracted, by adding bias in favour of men or against those women – likely not enough to make the model as a whole to favour men more than women, but it will still be adjusted away from reality in a way that favours men! An AI that randomly decides to imprison men 50% of the time and women 10% of the time can still be biased against women if women commit 0.1% of the actual crime.
In sulla's initial reply he stated that the model will be biased in favour of blacks, and biased in favour of women, which are both true but only true if you use two different definitions: "manually adjusted to favour a group" or "returning different results for different groups, all else being equal". I assume people think my reply denied that women will be a favoured group under the second definition; I do not.
That's precisely what I meant with "naïvely", as opposed to other complicated schemes (such as the case with generative AI where you could potentially do tricks like adding "no discrimination" to the prompt or the like). Apologies if that was unclear.
And this is where I think you're missing the point. Perhaps the effect will be sufficiently extreme to get noticed; extreme discrepancies refuse to get noticed all the time depending on political expediency, but this could be one of those that does get noticed. It doesn't follow that there will be any desire to counteract this by people who tend to push for de-biasing such algorithms for the purpose of demographic-based justice.
Also, I don't know how to square your above explanation with:
Today, people notice that human-based sentencing systems are "biased" against men in the sense that men and women with equivalent records and crimes get sentenced very differently, with men getting more harsh sentences. People evidently have no issue with this apparent "bias" regardless of whatever lip-service they might pay.
You seem to be claiming that people will notice that AI-driven sentencing systems are "biased" against men in the sense that men and women with equivalent records and crimes get sentenced very differently, with men getting more harsh sentences, and that people noticing this will want to counteract that "bias" by putting their thumb on the scale in favor of men in these AI models. This seems to me to be similar to society demanding that AI models treat men more "fairly" than we do today.
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