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ZorbaTHut  2yr ago (text post)   35553 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 19, 2022

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"Human rights instead of politics" is not a particularly remarkable redefinition.

The entire point of mere politics to me, looks plainly like the ability to get along with people you disagree with. That link contains a quote by the pope-at-the-time (is there a word for "contemporary relative to a historical source"?) saying that homosexually is not a political battle, but a "destructive pretension against the plan of God." Both this and "human rights" are vague concepts and are mostly applause lights anyways.

Even the podcaster knows "political" is a Motte-and-Bailey. At this timestamp she describes how "the personal is political" is a good rhetorical device but is not accurate when taken out of context. That is to say, it is using "political" the normal way, to mean "controversial."

Redefinitions of this kind, be it using Human Rights or God's Plan, or even Something Else, are simply rhetorical techniques to say "you can't disagree with me." Well-behaved thiests will often debate biblical interpretations, even though they agree that God's Plan is paramount. Likewise, if you asked an honest progressive, "How do you know Roe v Wade is a human rights issue?" you could get a few different responses:

  1. You will have blown her mind, as she did not really consider that. The situation is now up for debate. That's what those pro-lifers were saying the whole time?

  2. She will provide an argument.

I predict that most "human rights issue, not a political issue" types would just stare at you and say "wow I can't even."

That link contains a quote by the pope-at-the-time (is there a word for "contemporary relative to a historical source"?)

In this case, you don't need more than "contemporary," because it is Francis that Scott is talking about.

is there a word for "contemporary relative to a historical source"?

Contemporaneous?

I predict that most "human rights issue, not a political issue" types would just stare at you and say "wow I can't even."

I'd be shocked if you got a reply that was anything other than looping back to, "it should be between a woman and her doctor" or "you just want to control women" or similar. This is not a topic that invites thoughtful replies or a reset of expectations and positions.

"How do you know Roe v Wade is a human rights issue?"

I have never, ever, gotten either of those responses. I mostly get screeched at in sputtered syllables. Then when they are capable of speech again, they say something like "I can't even", "How dare you", "This is why nobody loves you" or "This is why everybody hates you". Then for as long as I know them, they mostly avoid me, and spread rumors about me.

No minds are ever "blown" except cognitive dissonance exploding into blind rage. No arguments are ever provided.

I generally find better use in asking when it should be not allowed, most people tend to at least go for the viability standard and are amazed when they figure out that is what is up for debate.

How do you phrase the question exactly? Is it the same phrasing I made? The reasoning I used was already that obvious to everyone here, eh?

Of course your experiences are exactly what I'd predict. Maybe I didn't emphasize it enough in my post, but those are the only 2 responses possible from honest progressives.

The dishonest ones who use "human rights issue not political issue" as a rhetorical device don't react that way. Of course, if you go over everything they'd ever said on the issue, you probably could construct an argument (go down path (2)). The reason they are dishonest is because the question dissolves the trick.

If somebody is saying, "Don't debate me" then giving an effective debate in response to that will obviously make them angry.

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