site banner
ZorbaTHut  2yr ago (text post)   35547 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 19, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

33
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

My first suspicion is that in a world with cryonics, this means body modification is sufficiently good that people can transition fully and convincingly without too much trouble. I suspect that in such a world the 2022 discussion is going to sound weird and anachronistic. I'd probably give up on trying to convince anyone that it was an important issue, since this would suggest that it was a publicly salient issue for only long enough to be a footnote before becoming technologically and culturally resolved to whatever the 2122 status quo is.

My first suspicion is that in a world with cryonics, this means body modification is sufficiently good that people can transition fully and convincingly without too much trouble.

I've actually got a game idea that, for complicated reasons, plays really well with homosexual/bisexual relationships, plays really badly with 2020s trans sensibilities, but is completely compatible with super scifi medical technology.

So I'm planning to just not have "trans people" as such, and if anyone asks, I'll say "oh yeah, medical science is really good, if you want to change your body you just go to the doctor. Takes like an hour of filling out paperwork, then you show up for a shot every week for a few months. Totally normal, nobody cares."

I know some people are going to get bent out of shape anyway, but, hey, fuck 'em.

If you casually established that some character(s) are trans in that way via some minor background detail, like an item description or document hidden in a drawer, people on the left would be pretty ecstatic. Celeste got a ton of positive press coverage and cheering because the main character is established to be trans by some very minor background details in one room in a DLC. (Of course, by the same token, this will piss off some people on the right...)

In this case it wouldn't really work; the general game loop is that you're trapped in a haunted mansion with a few other people, and you're supposed to figure out who the bad people are. Everything can be a clue, so for example, if you find yourself in a mansion with a lot of wooden stakes and mirrors and one female character and the rest male then this might be the Vampire Queen's Harem event. (Or it might not! Could be werewolves; did you notice the silver swords?)

But this means that anything that I call attention to has to potentially be a clue. And it's hard to come up with grade-B-horror plots that center around trans people.

it's hard to come up with grade-B-horror plots that center around trans people.

It's not difficult to come up with them, but it's hard for any to beat the landmark "or else it gets the hose again."

TBF you could do so much with that. Vampire that identifies as human, everyone's sympathetic until the skin peelers come out, etc.

Ah, interesting premise!

I can think of a few horror plots that "this person's family photos show a child that's the opposite gender instead of them" could be a clue for, off the top of my head. And at least a couple for "this person has a mysterious drug that they inject/take regularly" (which has other mundane explanations, of course).

"So we get to the coroner and he tells us something we already know: it wasn't wolves that killed him, it was an elf blade. Okay, he doesn't say that, but it definitely wasn't wolves." - Ross Scott.

Would this game essentially be Clue, but more supernatural?

It's based more directly off Betrayal At House On The Hill, except because it's got a computer backing it up, "figuring out which event you're in" is important; there isn't a hard shift between "exploring" and "the haunting". It's not really an investigative process, but I'm aiming for more triage; you're trying to deal with an upcoming supernatural menace without really knowing which supernatural menace, so you're kinda trying to cover all the reasonable bases.

Except with the guarantee that the bases can be covered - no werewolves without a ready supply of silver, for example.

"Clue but supernatural" seems to fit Phasmophobia well enough.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats