naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #3
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I must thank you for this post. Because, despite stating my indifference I feel like I've been driven by the past few weeks -and negative partisanship- into becoming more sympathetic towards Israel than ever before.
Some of the stuff I'm seeing people do is just absolutely ridiculous and some of the arguments - e.g. about what counts as a war crime, a term that seems to have lost all meaning - are really strange when you look at them. There are also solutions so absurd as to seem malicious (e.g. Marc Lamont Hill suggesting Israel let in Gazans into Isarel) and ones that seem to live on another planet where excruciating dilemmas like the ones Israel faces aren't a concern. I think, more than anything, I've been swayed by annoyance by the absolute lack of good plans suggested amongst people so certain they can demonize people with actual skin in the game.
I've never cared about this issue (the Jews weren't really a live issue in my country, so it was mostly wry hints about "those people" if it ever came up) until I became an atheist and then I made it a point to disdain the entire thing as a fascination of Arabophilic African Muslims who cared more about foreigners than their own (I essentially went through a hotep phase) but the more I get into the debate on this the more I really do think there's something to the claim that people really do treat Israel differently.
Anyways, long way to say: thank you for giving me a post-hoc rationalization for my emotional reaction :).
I ran across that Lamont Hill clip too and it's so insane how pathetically misinformed people are on this issue. My friend sent me a 280 page Amnesty International report lamenting the injustices of Israel's security barriers and literally not once does the report ever say anything about the proud tradition of using children as suicide bombers. I pointed this out and she backpedaled and sort-of-maybe-tried to argue that the civil right infringements of a security screening might be too high a price to pay to reduce suicide bombings. Just absolutely clueless. I have yet to come across any semblance of a plan for how to deal with Hamas, except what basically amounts to assuming the problem away.
I felt a similar kind of ambient aversion to the topic, being an Arab immigrant and then steeped within lefty activist circles. Even though I didn't think about the issue much, the thought of expressing any sort of affiliation with Israel would've been absolutely unthinkable to me.
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Notes -
I must thank you for this post. Because, despite stating my indifference I feel like I've been driven by the past few weeks -and negative partisanship- into becoming more sympathetic towards Israel than ever before.
Some of the stuff I'm seeing people do is just absolutely ridiculous and some of the arguments - e.g. about what counts as a war crime, a term that seems to have lost all meaning - are really strange when you look at them. There are also solutions so absurd as to seem malicious (e.g. Marc Lamont Hill suggesting Israel let in Gazans into Isarel) and ones that seem to live on another planet where excruciating dilemmas like the ones Israel faces aren't a concern. I think, more than anything, I've been swayed by annoyance by the absolute lack of good plans suggested amongst people so certain they can demonize people with actual skin in the game.
I've never cared about this issue (the Jews weren't really a live issue in my country, so it was mostly wry hints about "those people" if it ever came up) until I became an atheist and then I made it a point to disdain the entire thing as a fascination of Arabophilic African Muslims who cared more about foreigners than their own (I essentially went through a hotep phase) but the more I get into the debate on this the more I really do think there's something to the claim that people really do treat Israel differently.
Anyways, long way to say: thank you for giving me a post-hoc rationalization for my emotional reaction :).
I ran across that Lamont Hill clip too and it's so insane how pathetically misinformed people are on this issue. My friend sent me a 280 page Amnesty International report lamenting the injustices of Israel's security barriers and literally not once does the report ever say anything about the proud tradition of using children as suicide bombers. I pointed this out and she backpedaled and sort-of-maybe-tried to argue that the civil right infringements of a security screening might be too high a price to pay to reduce suicide bombings. Just absolutely clueless. I have yet to come across any semblance of a plan for how to deal with Hamas, except what basically amounts to assuming the problem away.
I felt a similar kind of ambient aversion to the topic, being an Arab immigrant and then steeped within lefty activist circles. Even though I didn't think about the issue much, the thought of expressing any sort of affiliation with Israel would've been absolutely unthinkable to me.
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