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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   28223 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of October 23, 2023

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There is no honor in serving an evil cause.

As if you get to define both honor and evil in order to serve your own purpose. If you don't think Lee was honorable, then your definition of honor is so selective as to be meaningless, and I suspect it really just boils to people you agree with. The same could be said of evil.

In voluntarily surrendering their humanity to act like a “good” cog, they ironically ensure that the machine’s work is the only true measure of their morality.

If there's anyone who is going around dehumanizing it's you. There are many reasons why someone would follow orders beyond voluntarily surrendering their humanity. The most obvious one being fear of punishment or reprisal, and it's so obvious I wonder how you could have omitted it from your perspective.

then your definition of honor is so selective as to be meaningless, and I suspect it really just boils to people you agree with

If the goodness of a cause is too subjective to judge people from, what makes honor any better a standard? The concept of honor also varies quite a lot from time to time and from place to place -- it's not like one can't construct a coherent definition of honor that does not include Lee's conduct.

As if you get to define both honor and evil in order to serve your own purpose.

I was disputing FC’s point that we should value leaders who conduct themselves “honorably”, even for an evil cause. If you want to make the case that the confederacy was not evil, that’s a different argument (and one I am less interested in).

There’s a semi-famous 18th century german general whose epitaph reads “Wählte Ungnade, wo Gehorsam keine Ehre brach’(‘Chose disgrace, when obedience brought no honor’. ) They aren’t the same thing.

There are many reasons why someone would follow orders beyond voluntarily surrendering their humanity. The most obvious one being fear of punishment or reprisal, and it's so obvious I wonder how you could have omitted it from your perspective.

Coercion is an excuse for doing evil, my problem is with the claim that following evil orders is worthy of praise/honorable/good.

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