naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
FirmWeird
Randomly Generated Reddit Username
1yr ago
Objectively this isn't true- while Ashkenazim are the wealthiest ethnic group in Israel, that's just at the level to be expected based on their IQ advantage,
We're talking about the left wing here - do you think "Oh actually people of colour are just hereditarily stupid, violent criminals so that's why they aren't doing as well as whites" is the sort of argument that they're willing to accept? Sure, this is the motte and we can talk about HBD openly and use it in arguments, but if you think that's going to be convincing to left wing political activists you're dreaming.
Israel is also not an apartheid state-
Let's just ask some people on the left their opinion on this issue! https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ Oh, would you look at that - it seems like they actually disagree with you here. In fact, they disagree with you so strongly that they have actually provided a short educational course you can take which will help you get educated on this issue and realise your (from their point of view) mistake. I mean, I have to admit that quotes like "Israel is not a state of all its citizens… [but rather] the nation-state of the Jewish people and only them" sound pretty ethnonationalist to me, but maybe there's some factor I'm missing? There was also that time they got caught surreptitiously administering contraceptives to brown people, which is another policy the antiracist left is somewhat opposed to.
Palestinians' own poor behavior is probably the largest contributing factor to their lack of international recognition.
I actually disagree here for two main reasons. The first is that I believe that the jewish community exists - I can look at organisations like Chabad house who currently have a big page on their website talking about how members of the community can support Israel. At the same time, organisations like AIPAC exist and frequently make very public statements about their goals and what they're doing. So we have some evidence that there is actually an organised effort to change opinions on the conflict coming from the Israeli side. And as for their poor behavior being the largest contributing factor to their lack of international recognition... I really have to disagree. I've encountered multiple arguments from Israeli partisans that run along the lines of 'Palestine was never a real country' and hence wasn't recognised before the conflict even started. Furthermore, it isn't like Lehi(self admitted terrorists!) or Irgun managed to prevent Israel from being internationally recognised either. How exactly could the bad behaviour of the Palestinians in response to Israeli occupation reach back in time and destroy international recognition while similar behaviour on the part of the Israelis garnered the opposite reaction? I don't think it actually could have, which is why I don't think it's the largest contributing factor.
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Notes -
We're talking about the left wing here - do you think "Oh actually people of colour are just hereditarily stupid, violent criminals so that's why they aren't doing as well as whites" is the sort of argument that they're willing to accept? Sure, this is the motte and we can talk about HBD openly and use it in arguments, but if you think that's going to be convincing to left wing political activists you're dreaming.
Let's just ask some people on the left their opinion on this issue! https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ Oh, would you look at that - it seems like they actually disagree with you here. In fact, they disagree with you so strongly that they have actually provided a short educational course you can take which will help you get educated on this issue and realise your (from their point of view) mistake. I mean, I have to admit that quotes like "Israel is not a state of all its citizens… [but rather] the nation-state of the Jewish people and only them" sound pretty ethnonationalist to me, but maybe there's some factor I'm missing? There was also that time they got caught surreptitiously administering contraceptives to brown people, which is another policy the antiracist left is somewhat opposed to.
I actually disagree here for two main reasons. The first is that I believe that the jewish community exists - I can look at organisations like Chabad house who currently have a big page on their website talking about how members of the community can support Israel. At the same time, organisations like AIPAC exist and frequently make very public statements about their goals and what they're doing. So we have some evidence that there is actually an organised effort to change opinions on the conflict coming from the Israeli side. And as for their poor behavior being the largest contributing factor to their lack of international recognition... I really have to disagree. I've encountered multiple arguments from Israeli partisans that run along the lines of 'Palestine was never a real country' and hence wasn't recognised before the conflict even started. Furthermore, it isn't like Lehi(self admitted terrorists!) or Irgun managed to prevent Israel from being internationally recognised either. How exactly could the bad behaviour of the Palestinians in response to Israeli occupation reach back in time and destroy international recognition while similar behaviour on the part of the Israelis garnered the opposite reaction? I don't think it actually could have, which is why I don't think it's the largest contributing factor.
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