naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #2
This is a refreshed megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
I think the argument that "US military and foreign influence completely withdrawing from the world would make it more peaceful and reduce overall deaths" that he makes in general is, both in the short term and long term, "obviously wrong". It's plausible that it'd force Israel specifically to finally conquer palestine and end the conflict, which would probably be good, but that'd be compensated by instability in other parts of Asia, Africa, the middle east, etc. The time before the liberal international order, with monarchs and very right-wing philosophies by current standards, was not particularly peaceful. A more accurate statement in the yarvin worldview is probably "the US withdrawing from the world would significantly hurt the power of currently-existing liberals, which is very good". Going off the arguments in From Cromer To Romer And Back Again, the most peaceful long-term solution is probably the US significantly its formal power i.e. sovereignty internationally, not decreasing it.
Are you addicted to Anglo-American missionary imperialism? Test yourself with two easy checks. Do you genuinely, emotionally, care about the plight of the Palestinians? Do you know where Stepanakert is? If your answers are “yes” and “no,” you need help.
It's a nice gotcha. The population of Nagorno-Karabakh for the past decade was around 150k. Apparently, 100k of those have already fled to Armenia. The population of Palestine is 5M. They do not, at present, have anywhere to flee to. I agree that the way most pro-palestine americans relate to palestine is very confused and stupid. And it's hypocritical to not care. But that doesn't impeach the general approach. I think most smart liberals are aware of Nagorno-Karabakh.
Ignore the conspiracy theory that Israel is controlled by the Jews! Idiot. Israel is like everywhere else. Israel is controlled by the State Department. From an Israeli paper: Secretary of State Anthony Blinken sat last night with the [Israeli] war cabinet and and dictated that humanitarian concessions be made to Gaza. Blinken remained in the Kirya IDF headquarters in Tel Aviv, and waited for the cabinet to approve his demands. The cabinet discussed the exact wording of the decision for hours, while each time drafts were passed between the cabinet room and Blinken’s room, just a few meters away, at the Kirya.
This is, directionally, very true! But it's worth considering what some of the 'humanitarian concessions' the US has coerced are, when evaluating if the US should leave.
Israel said on Sunday it was restarting the supply of water to parts of the Gaza Strip after shutting it off following Hamas’s devastating terrorist infiltration on October 7, in which over 1,300 Israelis were killed. Energy Minister Israel Katz confirmed the news in a statement, saying that water would begin to flow again to the southern portion of the narrow enclave — where Israel has urged residents to flee to in recent days. “The decision to restart water to the south of the Gaza Strip was agreed upon between Prime Minister [Benjamin] Netanyahu and US President [Joe] Biden, and will push the civilian population to the southern [part of the] Strip,” Katz said.
In response to:
GAZA, Oct 16 (Reuters) - As Israeli air strikes pounded the Gaza Strip ahead of an expected ground offensive, the enclave's residents were getting more desperate by the hour as water runs out, garbage piles up, explosions flatten homes and hospitals struggle to cope. Desperate to get some drinking water, some people began digging wells in areas adjacent to the sea or were relying on salty tap water from Gaza's only aquifer, which is contaminated with sewage and seawater. Two residents in Khan Younis, in the southern Gaza Strip, volunteered to fill plastic containers with water to distribute among displaced families.
Which makes that statement feel different!
A taste of how Classical International Law will go wrong is present in Moldbug's followers! I searched his substack on twitter, clicked on the first person to post it, and scrolled a bit. Within six posts, a Hitler meme. Scroll a bit more, several posts hinting at how awesome war and racism are. Hmm.
Since the Jews also feel that the land belongs to them, a lawsuit is necessary. In a world where the “United Nations” was not a thing, and America had zero dogs in the fight instead of two, this lawsuit would take the form of a war. And the Jews, being stronger, would win this war—even against the whole Arab and Muslim world. Since this is clear to everyone, no violence at all is necessary.
Haha! Weird how so many wars occurred before the United Nations existed, then.
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Notes -
I think the argument that "US military and foreign influence completely withdrawing from the world would make it more peaceful and reduce overall deaths" that he makes in general is, both in the short term and long term, "obviously wrong". It's plausible that it'd force Israel specifically to finally conquer palestine and end the conflict, which would probably be good, but that'd be compensated by instability in other parts of Asia, Africa, the middle east, etc. The time before the liberal international order, with monarchs and very right-wing philosophies by current standards, was not particularly peaceful. A more accurate statement in the yarvin worldview is probably "the US withdrawing from the world would significantly hurt the power of currently-existing liberals, which is very good". Going off the arguments in From Cromer To Romer And Back Again, the most peaceful long-term solution is probably the US significantly its formal power i.e. sovereignty internationally, not decreasing it.
It's a nice gotcha. The population of Nagorno-Karabakh for the past decade was around 150k. Apparently, 100k of those have already fled to Armenia. The population of Palestine is 5M. They do not, at present, have anywhere to flee to. I agree that the way most pro-palestine americans relate to palestine is very confused and stupid. And it's hypocritical to not care. But that doesn't impeach the general approach. I think most smart liberals are aware of Nagorno-Karabakh.
This is, directionally, very true! But it's worth considering what some of the 'humanitarian concessions' the US has coerced are, when evaluating if the US should leave.
In response to:
Which makes that statement feel different!
A taste of how Classical International Law will go wrong is present in Moldbug's followers! I searched his substack on twitter, clicked on the first person to post it, and scrolled a bit. Within six posts, a Hitler meme. Scroll a bit more, several posts hinting at how awesome war and racism are. Hmm.
Haha! Weird how so many wars occurred before the United Nations existed, then.
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