naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
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Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Have you argued for a position with very little support – honest inquiry, not a gotcha.
I have, a few times. I definately got accused of being stupid or ignorant. I don't recall people saying I "wasn't interested in discussion", but getting brusque and dismissive replies even from the more thoughtful people is certainly a challenge to one's morale. The tail-end of your experience I can't speak to from my own experience, but I think I've definately seen something along those lines play out with others.
Where I disagree with you is your conclusion. The problem isn't being wrong. It's talking to people in a way that undermines a productive conversation, and that's a bad thing to do no matter whether you're correct on the facts or not. That's the pattern of behavior I've been trying to demonstrate to you so far in the long thread.
For another example where bad faith accusations fly, see the gemmaem thread, of which I said pretty much the same thing:
I honestly think the gemmaem thread is an unfair pile-on, of the kind so prevalent in large subs. Sort-of outsider comes in, gets tons of criticism, if he or she reacts with even a fraction of the hostility shown to them, it's proof of bad faith, moral failings, deliberate refusal to accept the oh-so-clear-and-popular truth, and the gloves come completely off. I mean gemmaem's constantly reiterating that she's here in good faith, basically begging for charity, and she's not even a real outsider for us!
Any human slip from robotic, highest-decoupling arguing is interpreted as 'female shaming tactics' and the like. That doesn't mean there isn't some truth to those things, but people really underestimate how difficult it is to argue cleanly in unfamiliar enemy territory, and with so many hostile judges. Out of charity, we should be the ones to decouple: outside, female shaming tactics exist, but in here, an argument is just right or wrong.
I mean really, what is one-person shaming? Shaming requires a collective. She can't shame anyone, and neither could darwin.
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Notes -
I have, a few times. I definately got accused of being stupid or ignorant. I don't recall people saying I "wasn't interested in discussion", but getting brusque and dismissive replies even from the more thoughtful people is certainly a challenge to one's morale. The tail-end of your experience I can't speak to from my own experience, but I think I've definately seen something along those lines play out with others.
Where I disagree with you is your conclusion. The problem isn't being wrong. It's talking to people in a way that undermines a productive conversation, and that's a bad thing to do no matter whether you're correct on the facts or not. That's the pattern of behavior I've been trying to demonstrate to you so far in the long thread.
For another example where bad faith accusations fly, see the gemmaem thread, of which I said pretty much the same thing:
I mean really, what is one-person shaming? Shaming requires a collective. She can't shame anyone, and neither could darwin.
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