naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
29413 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
It's hard to explain.
The traditionalist right pretty much died out when the USSR and Americans allied to crush them.
Then whatever fringe was left was crushed by a combination of consumerism (industrial society), chemical warfare (contraception), and massive amount of propaganda.
Anyone with eyes can see that Western (American) media is a much bigger threat to native cultures than anything coming out of Russia or China.
Perhaps because the West is the most effective vehicle of the Industrial Revolution.
A less effective ruler can be a good thing, if the ruler's objectives are opposite to the survival of your people.
From an actual ethnonationalist point of view, people in Estonia, Latvia and to a lesser extent Lithuania certainly remember that rule by USSR meant a real, existing risk of their nationalities really, genuinely becoming minorities in their titular homelands
Yes or they could have been Belgians.
I doubt Belgians will exist as an ethnic group in the next 50 years, after so charitably hosting the EU parasite.
Meanwhile Poland is just as white as the Nazi ethnic cleansing left it.
Anyone with eyes can see that Western (American) media is a much bigger threat to native cultures than anything coming out of Russia or China.
That is quite wild claim, given outright attempts to destroy cultures run by both (see also "Ukrainians and Ukraine are fake and never really existed"). Chinese managed to run quite hard destruction attempt on themself and are busy speed running deliberately exploding population pyramid (recently they tried to reverse it, with poor results).
Still less terrible population pyramid than Poland, but we at least have not tried to achieve it deliberately.
And yes, Russia is corrupt and ineffective - but not so much to make them harmless. And Russification was repeatedly attempted by them with various degrees of success.
I doubt Belgians will exist as an ethnic group in the next 50 years
I am not sure whether they ever existed as ethnic group :)
Meanwhile Poland is just as white as the Nazi ethnic cleansing left it.
And that is both false and misleading (Nazis in Poland had very limited opportunity to murder non-white people on account of Poland having even less of them than nowadays - they murdered millions of white people). Hmm, now I wonder how many were murdered due to this.
That is quite wild claim, given outright attempts to destroy cultures run by both (see also "Ukrainians and Ukraine are fake and never really existed").
Ukrainian culture exists in the sense that Russian culture exists.
Are they meaningfully distinctive?
Probably about as distinctive as the cultures of two different islands of Japan, or two provinces of China.
What is more destructive to Ukrainian culture, having a few hundred thousands neighbors who share 98% of their culture move in and boss you around a little bit or importing millions of literal polygamous hunter-gatherers or islamic nomads + imposing pro-LGBT education/laws?
Additionally if Ukraine were to join the EU and the Schengen area, which seems to be one of the goals of the current regime, there would be 0 barrier to immigration of Russian-speaking EU citizens.
As far as I can tell about Ukrainian culture, Zelensky is at least as removed from it as the average Muscovite, and he was still speaking Russian in his official speeches a couple years before the war.
Moreover, shamelessly begging for international support does not seem to be part of the 'proud Ukrainian nationalist' ethos, but maybe I'm confused?
I am not sure whether they ever existed as ethnic group :)
Well certainly the Dutch and Belgians were slightly different from the Brits, Germans and French. Now it's all different shades of brown.
And that is both false and misleading (Nazis in Poland had very limited opportunity to murder non-white people on account of Poland having even less of them than nowadays - they murdered millions of white people).
Putting words in people's mouths and attributing to them positions they haven't taken is unnecessarily antagonistic and corrosive to discourse generally. Don't do this.
Wat? For start I explicitly mentioned "they murdered millions of white people". In case you are unaware, as of WW II Poles (including Jews) and European Jews where overwhelmingly white with rare exception (I guess you could track down some black Polish Jews killed in holocaust, but that was some extreme rarity even if existed). Gypsies were also not strongly present either.
I am really confused what you meant here.
Moreover, shamelessly begging for international support does not seem to be part of the 'proud Ukrainian nationalist' ethos, but maybe I'm confused?
I am even more confused here. Are you unaware that it is useful to have ATGM, AA, tanks, artillery and so on to deal with what Russia has?
Obviously, when attacked by significantly more powerful enemy producing/asking/buying/begging for/stealing/obtaining/conquering weapons is going to be fairly high priority.
boss you around a little bit
That is weird phrasing for what Russia did, planned or did in past.
Additionally if Ukraine were to join the EU and the Schengen area, which seems to be one of the goals of the current regime, there would be 0 barrier to immigration of Russian-speaking EU citizens.
In case you are unaware, as of WW II Poles (including Jews) and European Jews where overwhelmingly white with rare exception
Unless you want to argue that Ukrainians are a multi-ethnic culture including jews, the Ukrainian ethnic group would not include jews, just like jews don't consider Palestinians to be part of their ethnic group.
That is weird phrasing for what Russia did, planned or did in past.
Still left Ukrainian culture relatively intact, to the point that they think making aggressive nationalist claims in 2023 Europe is still acceptable.
Fortunately Russia is not in EU.
There are still plenty of Russian-speakers in the EU, because European borders are rather porous.
Well I don't know about Ukraine but I was talking about Poland.
My point was that the nazis effectively ethnically cleansed Poland from the various minority ethnic groups that existed there at the time, and that particular post-WW2 ethnic make-up was virtually unchanged until today.
Unlike what happened to Western Europe after opening themselves up to the NATO-aligned world, with the importation of great numbers of North-Africans, Middle-Easterners, Central Africans, Turks...
Meanwhile Poland is just as white as the Nazi ethnic cleansing left it.
was heavily misleading as this minorities (except barely present gypsies) were all white.
Unlike what happened to Western Europe after opening themselves up to the NATO-aligned world, with the importation of great numbers of North-Africans, Middle-Easterners, Central Africans, Turks...
Are you now claiming that it is unlike Russia that has no central-Asia migrants?
this minorities (except barely present gypsies) were all white.
Well the point is that the nazis ethnically cleansed Poland, rendering it almost 100% white and Catholic, and Poles have had no issue keeping it nearly 100% white and Catholic under USSR-regime.
I'm sure they did gain a certain %age of Russians (relatively white and Orthodox) and perhaps some other Russian minorities, but this is completely unlike what happened to Germany, getting an avalanche of slightly brown but quite islamic Turks, not to speak of UK, France, Italy, the Netherlands, etc.
Are you now claiming that it is unlike Russia that has no central-Asia migrants?
From an HBD perspective, this is not as much of a problem as African-origin migrants.
If the central Asians do end up taking over Russia like the Golden Horde and pushing the more European West Russians from power, it would be a problem, but it's a large enough territory for them to share.
Moreover the Russian regime seems intent on protecting Christian values like the family, unlike Western governments (and Ukraine) pushing LGBTQ+ matters on children.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It's hard to explain. The traditionalist right pretty much died out when the USSR and Americans allied to crush them. Then whatever fringe was left was crushed by a combination of consumerism (industrial society), chemical warfare (contraception), and massive amount of propaganda. Anyone with eyes can see that Western (American) media is a much bigger threat to native cultures than anything coming out of Russia or China. Perhaps because the West is the most effective vehicle of the Industrial Revolution. A less effective ruler can be a good thing, if the ruler's objectives are opposite to the survival of your people.
Yes or they could have been Belgians. I doubt Belgians will exist as an ethnic group in the next 50 years, after so charitably hosting the EU parasite. Meanwhile Poland is just as white as the Nazi ethnic cleansing left it.
That is quite wild claim, given outright attempts to destroy cultures run by both (see also "Ukrainians and Ukraine are fake and never really existed"). Chinese managed to run quite hard destruction attempt on themself and are busy speed running deliberately exploding population pyramid (recently they tried to reverse it, with poor results).
Still less terrible population pyramid than Poland, but we at least have not tried to achieve it deliberately.
And yes, Russia is corrupt and ineffective - but not so much to make them harmless. And Russification was repeatedly attempted by them with various degrees of success.
I am not sure whether they ever existed as ethnic group :)
And that is both false and misleading (Nazis in Poland had very limited opportunity to murder non-white people on account of Poland having even less of them than nowadays - they murdered millions of white people). Hmm, now I wonder how many were murdered due to this.
Ukrainian culture exists in the sense that Russian culture exists. Are they meaningfully distinctive? Probably about as distinctive as the cultures of two different islands of Japan, or two provinces of China. What is more destructive to Ukrainian culture, having a few hundred thousands neighbors who share 98% of their culture move in and boss you around a little bit or importing millions of literal polygamous hunter-gatherers or islamic nomads + imposing pro-LGBT education/laws?
Additionally if Ukraine were to join the EU and the Schengen area, which seems to be one of the goals of the current regime, there would be 0 barrier to immigration of Russian-speaking EU citizens.
As far as I can tell about Ukrainian culture, Zelensky is at least as removed from it as the average Muscovite, and he was still speaking Russian in his official speeches a couple years before the war.
Moreover, shamelessly begging for international support does not seem to be part of the 'proud Ukrainian nationalist' ethos, but maybe I'm confused?
Well certainly the Dutch and Belgians were slightly different from the Brits, Germans and French. Now it's all different shades of brown.
Oh you're a holocaust denier?
Putting words in people's mouths and attributing to them positions they haven't taken is unnecessarily antagonistic and corrosive to discourse generally. Don't do this.
More options
Context Copy link
Wat? For start I explicitly mentioned "they murdered millions of white people". In case you are unaware, as of WW II Poles (including Jews) and European Jews where overwhelmingly white with rare exception (I guess you could track down some black Polish Jews killed in holocaust, but that was some extreme rarity even if existed). Gypsies were also not strongly present either.
I am really confused what you meant here.
I am even more confused here. Are you unaware that it is useful to have ATGM, AA, tanks, artillery and so on to deal with what Russia has?
Obviously, when attacked by significantly more powerful enemy producing/asking/buying/begging for/stealing/obtaining/conquering weapons is going to be fairly high priority.
That is weird phrasing for what Russia did, planned or did in past.
Fortunately Russia is not in EU.
Unless you want to argue that Ukrainians are a multi-ethnic culture including jews, the Ukrainian ethnic group would not include jews, just like jews don't consider Palestinians to be part of their ethnic group.
Still left Ukrainian culture relatively intact, to the point that they think making aggressive nationalist claims in 2023 Europe is still acceptable.
There are still plenty of Russian-speakers in the EU, because European borders are rather porous.
Can you explain whether "Oh you're a holocaust denier?" you posted was 4chan mudlinging, copy paste error or in any way justified by my comment?
Wat? You can be Ukrainian Jew.
(and Jews from Ukraine were also overwhelmingly white anyway so it would change nothing anyway as far as what you quoted)
Well I don't know about Ukraine but I was talking about Poland. My point was that the nazis effectively ethnically cleansed Poland from the various minority ethnic groups that existed there at the time, and that particular post-WW2 ethnic make-up was virtually unchanged until today. Unlike what happened to Western Europe after opening themselves up to the NATO-aligned world, with the importation of great numbers of North-Africans, Middle-Easterners, Central Africans, Turks...
Your
was heavily misleading as this minorities (except barely present gypsies) were all white.
Are you now claiming that it is unlike Russia that has no central-Asia migrants?
Well the point is that the nazis ethnically cleansed Poland, rendering it almost 100% white and Catholic, and Poles have had no issue keeping it nearly 100% white and Catholic under USSR-regime. I'm sure they did gain a certain %age of Russians (relatively white and Orthodox) and perhaps some other Russian minorities, but this is completely unlike what happened to Germany, getting an avalanche of slightly brown but quite islamic Turks, not to speak of UK, France, Italy, the Netherlands, etc.
From an HBD perspective, this is not as much of a problem as African-origin migrants. If the central Asians do end up taking over Russia like the Golden Horde and pushing the more European West Russians from power, it would be a problem, but it's a large enough territory for them to share. Moreover the Russian regime seems intent on protecting Christian values like the family, unlike Western governments (and Ukraine) pushing LGBTQ+ matters on children.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link