naraburns nihil supernum
1yr ago
(text post)
29416 thread views
Israel-Gaza Megathread #1
This is a megathread for any posts on the conflict between (so far, and so far as I know) Hamas and the Israeli government, as well as related geopolitics. Culture War thread rules apply.
Yeah. One year is 500 black on white murders. How many Israelis die annually due to a direct Palestinian act? 20? If we factor in rapes this isn't even close.
To put that in perspective there are no state run military programs that try to avenge the loss of white lives. It's just contextualized as a national problem. A 'race issue'. If white people had only done more these white lives would not have been lost at the hands of blacks. Why can't jews just do that? Why do they have to be so ethnonationalist and hateful? We're all one race the human race. Say no to artificial borders and just let them in.
To put that in perspective there are no state run military programs that try to avenge the loss of white lives
The data clearly show that whites pose a much greater threat to white lives than do blacks. So, I assume you support a state-run military program against whites? And, of course, there are all the black victims who are killed by black perpetrators. I assume you support a state-run military program to avenge those victims? (I kid, of course, since I actually assume that you don't).
But, of course, your entire premise is bogus, because we do have state-run programs to avenge murders, and other crimes, as incarceration numbers clearly show.
The data clearly show that whites pose a much greater threat to white lives than do blacks. So, I assume you support a state-run military program against whites
No, just like Israel doesn't count the jews killed by other jews wrt the conflict with Palestine. You are only 'kidding' yourself by being this obtuse.
Now, did I answer your question or are you still going to pretend that 20 = 500? Or that Palestinians are raping as many jewish women as blacks rape white women?
No, just like Israel doesn't count the jews killed by other jews wrt the conflict with Palestine
I don't understand the relevance, unless you think there is some sort of race war going on in the US.
are you still going to pretend that 20 = 500
No, I but I am going to "pretend" that 1200>500. I am also going to "pretend" that 1200 people in a country of 10 million is equivalent to 42,000 in a country of 350 million.
There's just as much a race war in the US as there is a Palestinian conflict. Either we are one race the human race with artificial borders or we are ethnic groups. I am not entertaining tactical nazism for jews only.
No, I but I am going to "pretend" that 1200>500.
1200 in one anomaly year. It gets dwarfed by 3 average US years. We are still not counting the rapes.
I am also going to "pretend" that 1200 people in a country of 10 million is equivalent to 42,000 in a country of 350 million.
Except it's not. If the Israeli government was forcibly making Palestinians live within Israel whilst actively stoking pro-Palestinian grievance narratives I'm sure we could bump these numbers up. Which still leaves us with the drug epidemic. How many neighborhoods should the US turn into 'parking lots' because of the Sackler's?
The Sackler's are Americans, so are you advocating the US should flatten its own neighborhoods? Why not just, you know arrest the Sacklers? If the people doing bad thing X are your citizens and in your jurisdiction you don't have to bomb anything to get revenge, you can target the specific people.
The Palestinians are Israelis by the same logic. Sorry, I'm not doing tactical nazism in favor of jews. If ethnic lines are sufficient in Israel to differentiate between people, it's sufficient everywhere else. The Sackler family is jewish just as much as Hamas is Palestinian.
That doesn't make any sense. Sacklers are Americans living in America. Not in a part of America that America doesn't actually govern day to day like the Gaza Strip, but just America. If Hamas was based in Jerusalem then arresting specific Hamas leaders and the specific attackers would be entirely sensible. But they are not The US was able to get the Sacklers into a courtroom so that the specific people involved could face the consequences. You don't need to drag Jews on the other side of the world into it, any more than you have to blame Americans (another group the Sacklers belong too!) for it and decide as punishment you should flatten 3 square miles of Minnesota.
If the Sacklers were hiding out in a walled off Delaware, which the US government didn't have control of any longer, (they backed the younger Bidens in rebelling against their dad and declared independence) then yes perhaps launching missiles at the Chancery Court would be your best chance at stopping them distributing opioids (though given there is a vast network of legal pharmacies within the rest of the US distributing them, maybe that would be a better place to start). The issue is that in one case you can arrest/sue the SPECIFIC people involved, and in the other they are hidden in and amongst a group who aren't going to give them up to you. Regardless of what groups everyone belongs to, they are entirely different scenarios.
All these justifications apply just the same to Palestinians dying in Palestine because Hamas did X. You're not engaging with the contention, which is that you are drawing arbitrary lines of distinction in one case but not the other. If the Sacklers carry no ethnic burden then Hamas carries no ethnic burden. If the actions of specific jews in America don't transmit fault to other jews then the actions of specific Palestinians don't transmit to other Palestinans.
The argument I get when I mention jews is; there are specific jews who do bad things. Implying in any way that there is any connection between them and other jews is wrong. Even if they hide amongst other jews, even if other jews actively hide them, the blame does not go around. It's never group applicable.
Well, now the shoe is on the other foot with zionists and jews seeing no reason to not let groups carry the fault of individuals. In that spirit we can rename the holocaust the 'Collateral Damagecaust'. Since that's all dead civilian Palestinians are.
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Yeah. One year is 500 black on white murders. How many Israelis die annually due to a direct Palestinian act? 20? If we factor in rapes this isn't even close.
To put that in perspective there are no state run military programs that try to avenge the loss of white lives. It's just contextualized as a national problem. A 'race issue'. If white people had only done more these white lives would not have been lost at the hands of blacks. Why can't jews just do that? Why do they have to be so ethnonationalist and hateful? We're all one race the human race. Say no to artificial borders and just let them in.
The data clearly show that whites pose a much greater threat to white lives than do blacks. So, I assume you support a state-run military program against whites? And, of course, there are all the black victims who are killed by black perpetrators. I assume you support a state-run military program to avenge those victims? (I kid, of course, since I actually assume that you don't).
But, of course, your entire premise is bogus, because we do have state-run programs to avenge murders, and other crimes, as incarceration numbers clearly show.
No, just like Israel doesn't count the jews killed by other jews wrt the conflict with Palestine. You are only 'kidding' yourself by being this obtuse.
Now, did I answer your question or are you still going to pretend that 20 = 500? Or that Palestinians are raping as many jewish women as blacks rape white women?
I don't understand the relevance, unless you think there is some sort of race war going on in the US.
No, I but I am going to "pretend" that 1200>500. I am also going to "pretend" that 1200 people in a country of 10 million is equivalent to 42,000 in a country of 350 million.
There's just as much a race war in the US as there is a Palestinian conflict. Either we are one race the human race with artificial borders or we are ethnic groups. I am not entertaining tactical nazism for jews only.
1200 in one anomaly year. It gets dwarfed by 3 average US years. We are still not counting the rapes.
Except it's not. If the Israeli government was forcibly making Palestinians live within Israel whilst actively stoking pro-Palestinian grievance narratives I'm sure we could bump these numbers up. Which still leaves us with the drug epidemic. How many neighborhoods should the US turn into 'parking lots' because of the Sackler's?
The Sackler's are Americans, so are you advocating the US should flatten its own neighborhoods? Why not just, you know arrest the Sacklers? If the people doing bad thing X are your citizens and in your jurisdiction you don't have to bomb anything to get revenge, you can target the specific people.
The Palestinians are Israelis by the same logic. Sorry, I'm not doing tactical nazism in favor of jews. If ethnic lines are sufficient in Israel to differentiate between people, it's sufficient everywhere else. The Sackler family is jewish just as much as Hamas is Palestinian.
That doesn't make any sense. Sacklers are Americans living in America. Not in a part of America that America doesn't actually govern day to day like the Gaza Strip, but just America. If Hamas was based in Jerusalem then arresting specific Hamas leaders and the specific attackers would be entirely sensible. But they are not The US was able to get the Sacklers into a courtroom so that the specific people involved could face the consequences. You don't need to drag Jews on the other side of the world into it, any more than you have to blame Americans (another group the Sacklers belong too!) for it and decide as punishment you should flatten 3 square miles of Minnesota.
If the Sacklers were hiding out in a walled off Delaware, which the US government didn't have control of any longer, (they backed the younger Bidens in rebelling against their dad and declared independence) then yes perhaps launching missiles at the Chancery Court would be your best chance at stopping them distributing opioids (though given there is a vast network of legal pharmacies within the rest of the US distributing them, maybe that would be a better place to start). The issue is that in one case you can arrest/sue the SPECIFIC people involved, and in the other they are hidden in and amongst a group who aren't going to give them up to you. Regardless of what groups everyone belongs to, they are entirely different scenarios.
All these justifications apply just the same to Palestinians dying in Palestine because Hamas did X. You're not engaging with the contention, which is that you are drawing arbitrary lines of distinction in one case but not the other. If the Sacklers carry no ethnic burden then Hamas carries no ethnic burden. If the actions of specific jews in America don't transmit fault to other jews then the actions of specific Palestinians don't transmit to other Palestinans.
The argument I get when I mention jews is; there are specific jews who do bad things. Implying in any way that there is any connection between them and other jews is wrong. Even if they hide amongst other jews, even if other jews actively hide them, the blame does not go around. It's never group applicable.
Well, now the shoe is on the other foot with zionists and jews seeing no reason to not let groups carry the fault of individuals. In that spirit we can rename the holocaust the 'Collateral Damagecaust'. Since that's all dead civilian Palestinians are.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I have no idea what you are talking about.
I have no idea how you could not.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link