This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The only reason for doling out political appointments based on race, sex, etc. is “racism/sexism/etcism is good, actually”.
I do find it hard to give any charity to that view, I will admit.
And some people think that the only reason to oppose abortion rights is to oppress women. Those people are also wrong. Perhaps you need to some reading on democratic theory, or on political legitimacy. You might find that there are, indeed, other reasons, even if you personally don't agree with them. Perhaps the writing of Lani Guinier re evangelical Christians might be a place to start.
It wouldn’t be so blatant if they didn’t pre-announce the race and sex of their appointees. Even just the plausible deniability of not doing that would improve the optics.
Immediately narrowing the universe of candidates based on race and sex is definitionally racist and sexist.
The “political legitimacy” of the racial spoils system of South Africa surely provides much comfort to its citizens.
Why would one need plausible deniability for doing something that you think is sound policy?
No, it is definitionally discriminatory. That is not the same as racist/sexist. And sometimes both racial and gender discrimination are fine. There are lots of boys-only and girls-only schools out there, after all.
Political legitimacy does not guarantee good policy, and it seems to me that South Africa has greater threats to the political legitimacy of its government than its "racial spoils system." And Taiwan, Belgium, New Zealand, Singapore and Croatia seem to be doing fine, despite having ethnic quotas in their legislatures. I note that South Africa does not seem to have such quotas. Perhaps it would be doing better if it did?
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link