The Wednesday Wellness threads are meant to encourage users to ask for and provide advice and motivation to improve their lives. It isn't intended as a 'containment thread' and any content which could go here could instead be posted in its own thread. You could post:
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Requests for advice and / or encouragement. On basically any topic and for any scale of problem.
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Updates to let us know how you are doing. This provides valuable feedback on past advice / encouragement and will hopefully make people feel a little more motivated to follow through. If you want to be reminded to post your update, see the post titled 'update reminders', below.
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Advice. This can be in response to a request for advice or just something that you think could be generally useful for many people here.
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Encouragement. Probably best directed at specific users, but if you feel like just encouraging people in general I don't think anyone is going to object. I don't think I really need to say this, but just to be clear; encouragement should have a generally positive tone and not shame people (if people feel that shame might be an effective tool for motivating people, please discuss this so we can form a group consensus on how to use it rather than just trying it).
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Ultimately a lot of the opinions of men here around misogyny, sexism, sex, and women in general are strongly motivated by a deep personal bitterness resulting from perceived or real sexual / romantic failure (either in their past or present) with women.
Thus the paranoid obsession with the idea that all women are secretly fucking “chad” while the nice guys (like them, or like them before they became redpilled) are left with the scraps or nothing at all. They’re not angry about male promiscuity, they’re (as I said to @raggedy_anthem last week) angry that they’re not Chad, that they’re not Russell Brand, that they don’t get to fuck around with many beautiful young women very easily. Or, in cases where they have worked to be more attractive to women, the fact that beauty is superficial has ‘blackpilled’ them in the same way. So, as ‘temporarily embarrassed chads’, they must defend bad male behavior.
If a few assumptions are true:
"Chads", as a group, are not only better looking but more conscientious/determined/virtuous than average Joes, and
Average Joes, without the opportunity for a wife and family, are NOT going to either stop contributing to society or attempt to violently reorganize it to get wives and families...
then why the hell is this a bad thing? Future generations will have more Chad genes and fewer genes of guys that just kind of sucked but were doing OK under agrarian patriarchy. Even if our civilization collapses and we wind up living like African peasants, germ theory was a big deal and means that infant and maternal mortality will likely never be as low as it was centuries ago. That has some implications for the structure of families and societies.
I say bring it on: why doesn't Chad deserve a literal harem, if the kids are doing OK?
Also: people are shallow. The experience of being very unattractive, or of having a large change in either direction of attractiveness, breeds cynicism. If you're friends with anyone that got surgery for a jaw so puny that their doctors recommended it...ask them how they were treated before and after surgery. I haven't had the experience and I don't know anyone who does, though.
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I'm not a Chad, but neither am I an incel, even though I am pretty black-pilled and speak like one. The reason I am blackpilled is more for CW reasons.
Do I want to be Chad? Yes. Very few honest men would say otherwise. As was the norm in the early 2000s before it became a CW battlefront and men were generally much more open about the fact that if they could of course they would bang all the hotties, quite literally all of them.
Do I really really really want to be Chad? No. Having an attractive enough partner is good enough. The fact that Chads exist, doesn't really rile me left or right too much.
What really does rile me is lies. If there was honest acknowledgment in the form of;
We can work towards a solution.
But we don't have that. Its ALWAYS the mans fault. Nothing to do with the fact that men are set up to fail, no solutions, nothing. Just that men suck.
And then the solutions given are plain terrible. No such solutions ever ever tell the individual men how to actually improve their chances. They tell them to be more empathetic or respectful some other gay shit. Why not tell them to hit the gym, talk to as many women as they can, and get a better car or something? You know things that would work?
I have yet to see a woman actually think like an invidiual about this. They always talk about it in a way where women as a class is prioritized even over individual men. Why such suffocating level of gynocentrism? You won't give men your honest advice to protect other women? (Because its impossible to be successful with women without making some of them uncomfortable, if your terminal goal is never making a woman uncomfortable ever, you will never get ANY woman)
Why is there so much talk of where is it appropriate to talk to women or not? So what? We can't speak to our fellow citizens in the public? Or school? Or work? Or the gym? Or the anywhere? Is that like the solution ??? Talking to women?? Shouldn't these articles be telling men to talk to women wherever they can??
It's the constant never ending othering of men. This dishonesty or tribalism makes me feel that no one actually talking about the issue has my best interest at heart, it's only their problem because they are paying a price now. My reaction to that is.. "okay fuck you too".
Thanks for your reply. From my perspective I don't think the vast majority of individual men or women are to blame - anyone under 75 came of age during or after the sexual revolution after all. Even Russell Brand was affected by it (and his father's degenerate sexual behavior) as a child, according to himself. But from my perspective I don't think a reckoning can come without facing the fact that powerful men did create or certainly forward the sexual revolution for their own gratification.
That young women want male attention, and that young men are interested in young women, was as true in 1923 or 1823 or 1023 as it is in 2023. What has changed is that young women are expected to put out for those men's sexual gratification in way they weren't historically. As @raggedy_anthem said last week, it's unclear how young women benefit from promiscuity - the young men in question probably aren't going to prioritize or care about their pleasure, they risk sexually transmitted diseases, sexual (or other) violence and social stigma. The only reason they do it is 'attention', but again, a pretty young woman got that from men long before the sexual revolution in every society on earth, so this hardly requires promiscuity. What happened was a race to the bottom, in which women were encouraged to trade their bodies to ever greater degrees to attempt to get the same thing (a stable relationship with a decent man) that they always wanted and which they had previously been able to get without debasing themselves to anywhere near the same extent.
There is no 'individual solution' to the sexual revolution. That's why my advice to individuals tends to be (as it is in dating advice threads here) to take chances, to be open about attraction, to not wallow in self-pity, to avoid promiscuity because it's bad for the soul, and to focus on finding a decent person from a good background of good temperament who you want to start a family with. And yes, to take care of your appearance (if anything, I'm one of the most honest people about 'face is everything' / superficiality here, and I'm open about being pretty vain myself).
But while you can live a good life in a rotten culture, as a society, this isn't really a solution. It's hard to predict how culture is going to develop, but I don't want many more generations of young women to grow up thinking they owe it to men to have sex with them for fleeting attention, and so one of my hopes from these movements (and associated tiktok movements for young women etc) is that they help the next generation of girls think more carefully about whether they give in to pressure from men and boys to sleep with them without really thinking about it. It's not likely, of course, liberalism flows in only one direction. But as @iprayiam3 said, and this I really do agree with,
Indeed they may be rebuilding it wrong, but then again, 'traditional' religion and the conservative movement utterly failed to prevent the sexual revolution, so it's hard to see that as the 'solution' either.
Yeah. The washing machine and things like it were a pretty big deal and were arguably inevitable once we got the electricity, running water, and affluence to afford them on a large scale. An underrated factor here is also penicillin; before penicillin, syphilis was basically the AIDS of its day. The cutting edge treatments of the time were giving people arsenic and hoping that that killed the syphilis before it killed the person.
Intentional malaria infection was also used.
Both of these won the Nobel Prize in their time.
We might converge on a sex negative chastity culture, but it would probably look like the most sociosexually restricted 10 percent of people's desires/ideals become the mean. Casual sex would be seen as...ungentlemanly, possibly low class, and risky.
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I don't really disagree with any of this.
Even though I contest the notion that the plural option a good woman has to be with a man is to debase herself. Because in my view it's like all the woman has to do to avoid that is say "I really like you and want to continue this, but let's take it slowly". If he is a "decent man" this ought to work.
But I wouldn't hold my breath on this.
I would say there is no solution to anything ever but individual solutions done a million times over.
More on this later.
I would go as far as to say there exists no solution at all.
My highest probability event is if something crazy like an AI-powered VR revolution AND mass cloning or something doesn't happen, then the problem solves itself in a few generations. High TFR groups outbreed low TFR groups and... problem solved! Some rotten cultures by definition won't last forever, survival is the terminal goal at the most microscopic level.
You are a lot more optimistic about these so-called movements than I am. And I think you are offering them an overly charitable reading.
The overwhelming majority of them are just repacked FDS shit. They don't say "you know putting out on the first date with a random isn't good for your soul", It's more like "don't put out for a broke nigga (the implication being it's ok to put out with "Chad")".
If you have any examples that are not terminally low IQ, feel free to share.
Bringing things back never works. New problems need new solutions.
Ideally, we would (I hate to use this word but..) "empower" men.
This means fixing the dating-related messaging given out everywhere. You might not realize how many lies are required to hold up this house of cards. That which can be destroyed by the truth must be! Be honest about women's K selectiveness and men's R selectiveness.
Stop the constant girls rule boys drool messaging. Why the society-wide campaign to lower the status of half the population? Societies with high TFR actually respect men!
Defeminize education.
.. You get the just.
But those will never happen so individual men self improoooooving it is for now.
I also vote for guys being chucked out into the Alaskan wilderness or some other life-and-death challenge, willingly undertaken. It'll harden the survivors up and we have what, 105 boys born per 100 girls? We can afford to lose a few of the biggest chumps.
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I actually know some men who have a shocking (and frankly unhealthy) number of sex partners. Thing is: They do take no for an answer. Except for one (who was ejected for being a creep), they don't try to say my contrary beliefs are insincere. I'm not privy to their Tinder accounts, but I assume they treat other women the same way. I might dislike these men's behavior for other reasons, but based on my limited experience, most "Chads" respect women.
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