What is this place?
This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a
court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to
optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.
The weekly Culture War threads host the most
controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are
appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy;
if in doubt, post!
Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts.
You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.
Why are you called The Motte?
A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently,
it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey",
originally identified by
philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial
but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens
this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for
the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired
propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."
On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.
New post guidelines
If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it.
A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts
such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a
submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).
Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or
significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.
If in doubt, please post it!
Rules
- Courtesy
- Content
- Engagement
- When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
- Proactively provide evidence in proportion to how partisan and inflammatory your claim might be.
- Accept temporary bans as a time-out, and don't attempt to rejoin the conversation until it's lifted.
- Don't attempt to build consensus or enforce ideological conformity.
- Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
- The Wildcard Rule
- The Metarule
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
The original "Duke Lacrosse" Ivermectin Article published by Rolling Stone.
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/fda-horse-dewormer-covid-fox-news-1215168/
The main message which you seems to have worked on you subconsciously:
"Oklahoma's ERs are so backed up with people overdosing on ivermectin that gunshot victims are having to wait to be treated, a doctor says."
This never happened. Nothing like it happened. Yet despite their update to the story which you may have missed, the damage worked. Millions of people have some sense that their biases are confirmed: stupid southerners among their despised outgroup are overdosing on "horse dewormer." Only an idiot would take horse dewormer!
Of course it makes no sense. Ivermectin is available for humans in most states with a simple prescription. I got my prescription online after 5 minutes.
This article, and many others debunk it. The hospital denies the foundational facts of the Rolling Stone article.
https://townhall.com/columnists/timgraham/2021/09/10/rolling-stone-commits-horse-dewormer-fraud-n2595648
Rolling Stone issued their own update:
So basically they are admitting that the lede in their original story was totally baseless. Rather than come out and say that, they pretend that it could be true, even though they found zero evidence for it.
So all of this goes back to the first point of contention. I don't believe that the editors of Rolling Stone are that stupid. And CNN, Guardian, Newsweek, The Hill, MSNBC, Rachel Maddow etc. Maybe some of them are. But it's a safe bet that some of them had financial interests in quashing Ivermectin in order to preserve the EUA upon which the neovaccines are founded. This looks like politics and money, not science.
More options
Context Copy link