This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Welfare is one iota of a large group of policies, some of which are prosocial and some of which are antisocial. If we want a “well-behaved lower class”, we would be making shift work illegal and enforcing rules on maternity leave and company-provided healthy meals. And banning children from accessing certain media. This would be a great boon to mental and physical health. Alas, we don’t do this, and so the middle class pays a disproportionate amount of their income on the consequences of our antisocial society, via healthcare and police services and jails. So in addition to welfare and unemployment checks, we also have other policies: unions, capping C-Suite pay at a percent of employee pay, domestic protection from foreign immigrant workers… there’s a lot.
I don’t think this is the root of the progressive impulse. The root is that they feel their quality of life is not proportional to what they deserve, given the vast mass of wealth that is wasted by the 1%. Interference in democracy and self-serving tendencies are secondary concerns. Progressives see the social policies of other countries and find them desirable, and they can also imagine better conditions in the US.
If we disperse more of the funds that the mega-wealthy waste, and lobby for better employee conditions, then people will be healthier and live longer. So progressives are merely asserting that there is a superior possibility for America, instead of the steadily decreasing health and purchasing power and increasing debt the middle class. I think that the way they go about this is wrong but that’s the impulse.
More options
Context Copy link