This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This is the pattern of "we are brutal toward our friends so just imagine what we will do to our enemies" that carries throughout history. For instance Mongols themselves practiced group guilt where the unit of 10 men were responsible for things done by every member, similarly the unit of 100 was responsible for things every 10th did and so forth. So if you get an order to gather ears or arms of innocent victims as a proof of genocide in soon to be razed city, there is 9 of your comrades breathing on your neck willing to literally kill you if you do not conform - or it will be their neck on the chopping block. Similar pattern of behavior can be seen in WW2 Imperial Army - when POWs complained about beatings and horrible conditions, it was relatively "reasonable" distance from normal Japanese soldier who faced harsh disciplinary punishment as well. And lastly I could see that pattern when listening to some intercepted phone calls to Russian soldiers in Ukraine from their families. It was interesting to hear wives or even mothers of soldiers who were just told that their "loved ones" just barely survived almost whole wipe of their unit and that they very likely will die or get severely injured - only for it to ignored and the discussion turned onto salary or what can the soldier send back home.
Of course the whole thing is much more frightening for members of these communities.
More options
Context Copy link