site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 4, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

7
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Would you say that no mainstream Christian is “still in their sins”? Because they all assent to the fact that the dead were raised. But I do not think that this fact, as something simply assented to (rather than dramatically imagined), is doing anything to change someone’s morality or sinfulness. And if we’re not ultimately changing our righteousness, then the whole of Christianity is worthless.

For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

They're all justified through Christ's sacrifice (assuming they've really accepted the gift and believe). They're hopefully all working on the sanctification (becoming more Christ like and crucifying their natural self), but none of them are there yet.

I have good news for you then, because the sacrifice of Christ raised us from our innate sinfulness and allowed us to strive for sanctification.

As a Christian you aren't with the goal of banking enough good boy points to overcome your sins but rather you are virtuous out of your own belief in virtue.

I would prefer a Christianity where people are provenly made virtuous, which is an important theme in the Gospel. Those who lack righteousness are actually told to “sell” what they are currently doing, in order to buy enough (what you call) “good boy points” in order to overcome their sin. This is illustrated in the parable of the five wise and five foolish Virgins, as well as the parable of the Talents — in the latter Jesus actually commends someone for putting his God-given coin “in the bank”. Those who are not righteous will find their place in hell — all three of these are shown clearly in Matthew 25. Lastly, to those who do evil works, there will be no saving them, which is found in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus.