site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 28, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

10
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I think there is an emergent strategy bubbling with dissidents who are not neck deep in grifting.

Ryan Faulk of the Alternative Hypothesis mused a lot on how to influence people into believing 'race realism' or HBD. One of the key points he raised was that it seemed like distrust of the mainstream was a prerequisite for belief in HBD. The important part here is that the 'mainstream' doesn't necessarily refer to academia, but news media. As soon as people associate the mainstream press with horseshit, you, as a dissident, have more inroads with them.

It looks like more people are finding their way towards this mechanism. It wouldn't be the first time the more respectable and socialized 'dissidents' find their way to the path trodden by white nationalists. Now we can wait for the respectable dissidents to utilize this mechanism and ride it victoriously to crush all the fake mainstream narratives, gain popular support and save the West!... Or maybe not.

A key element that keeps people from going all the way is right wing media. Ultimately their cause is based on the same environmentalist priors that fuel the 'left'. And it's guarded just as religiously. Not only that, there is an added weight of getting scolded by ones own side when going too far outside the bounds of the mainstream. On top of that there is a self congratulatory perception that you are proving your side to be good to the outgroup when you toss your own into the fire for any racist heresy. A sort of sacrificial lamb that you hope will quench the hate directed your way.

In any case, the gate that holds truth at bay isn't locked by what right wingers in general perceive to be the outgroup. If that were the case there is no way it could remain locked. The key to the gate is held firmly by a trusted member of the ingroup. And it will stay that way.