This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I don't think this is quite true. I think what gives you the creeps is the fact that this individual is going to pose a heightened risk of committing molestation compared to a normal person, and your reputation is damaged by associating with and tolerating someone paedophile-adjacent.
The first problem is rational, but this is fine if we can actually know for sure that "he never indulges [his fetish] with a real infant" (obviously this is impossible for the real-world, but you're arguing that even if it were, you wouldn't consent)
The second problem is also reasonable (it's why I think I wouldn't consent even if I knew for sure nothing untoward were to happen) - but it would be non-existent if society destigmatised being a "MAP".
So let me pose a more useful hypothetical. Imagine the following:
We live in a world where paedophillia is accepted as an involuntary condition like homosexuality, depression or schizophrenia (there are inevitably some nasty paedophobes, but they're relegated to the fringes of society where they belong)
We celebrate and encourage MAPs ("paedophile" is so clinical and sounds vaguely bigoted) in finding safe ways to cope, such as viewing/drawing lolicon, wearing diapers, etc. (there are some who then actually commit sex crimes, but they are a tiny tiny minority, and only bigots would suggest they are in any way reflective of the MAP community)
In fact one of the members of this oppressed and marginalised community is your brother. Ever since he came out nearly a decade ago, he has never even been accused of doing anything to children. He loves watching animated child pornography (voiced by 18+ actors) and has a diaper fetish, and is open and unashamed about all of these things, as society says he is entitled to be.
Given his squeaky clean record, and the fact you've known him since childhood, you are completely confident that if you let him change your infant's diapers, he wouldn't ever molest it. And your friends and family wouldn't bat an eye to you if you allowed this to happen (indeed if anything, they'd wonder if you might be a bit of a bigot if you don't let him do it)
In this scenario, I would allow my brother to change the diaper. I believe if he did all of this without making lewd comments, it doesn't matter if inside his head this is the hottest thing ever for him - I would view it the same to a heterosexual male gynaecologist treating an attractive young woman.
More options
Context Copy link