site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 14, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

were responses to unforced errors

These prosecutions would have taken place regardless of Trump's conduct, because the point is not to actually score a conviction, but to sap his financial resources and time to prevent him from campaigning. We know this because we can go back to 2016 - Trump did nothing wrong and made no unforced errors with regards to Russia, but he was prosecuted regardless by people whose partisan desire to take him down was undeniably documented.

A democrat who lied to the feds about the boxes would've been prosecuted too.

Wrong - Hillary did far worse and got little more than a stern talking to. Joe Biden also did worse and nothing happened (talking specifically about the boxes he kept in his garage here).

prosecuting him is important in keeping those norms alive.

These norms are far, FAR less important than the norm "You do not criminally charge and prosecute your opponent in the next election" which is currently being destroyed in what I think is an incredibly bad move for the left. There's a very good chance Trump wins the next election, and every single one of these broken precedents is going to be a dagger in his hands - and I highly doubt he's going to be as restrained as he was in his first term. Have you seen the kind of content he shares on TruthSocial? There's a real edge to it that wasn't there before, and the anger and rage that his base is expressing right now make me deeply concerned that Trump being imprisoned could lead to incredibly violent and worst of all justified civil unrest.

I think most FBI action related to trump came from the perspective of 'he's pretty annoying but we're doing our jobs', not 'we must prevent this fascist from destroying the nation'

If you think this it is because you have not done the research or read the primary sources that matter. Your position is directly contradicted by the leaked messages and open, public statements made by multiple FBI officials. I'm not going to spend a few hours finding them and doing your homework for you because it has already been done, over and over again.