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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   30623 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 14, 2023

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No there isn’t a way of you (the sole voter for your choice) guaranteeing everyone lives. If you vote blue you may die. If you vote red someone else may die. The only way to make sure is if enough people vote the same way but once you can allow for cooperation you tell everyone “if we all vote red no one does so just vote red.”

No there isn’t a way of you (the sole voter for your choice) guaranteeing everyone lives.

I hate this kind of turnabout. I wasn't talking about myself. I was talking about us, considering there's at least one 3 year old who makes the "wrong" choice. There's only one way to protect them.

Yes, technically speaking, without cooperation there's no way to guarantee anything. So obviously what I meant was that given a 3 year old who picks blue there's only one way to save everyone.

And I hate your kind of turnabout. You introduced the knowledge and ability to influence others into the scenario in order to “get” to your preferred outcome. If we can do that, then we can very easily influence the 3 year old to take the red candy. I have kids. It isn’t hard to convince the kid to take the red pill in this example. In fact, I think you’d be really irresponsible to get the kid to take the blue pill hoping you could get enough other people to pick blue. I know I would do everything in my power to get my kids to take red even if it meant going from sufficient blue to insufficient blue because I would not risk my kids dying.

It isn’t hard to convince the kid to take the red pill in this example.

Just tell them blue is spicy. Works on my kids.

You introduced the knowledge and ability to influence others into the scenario in order to “get” to your preferred outcome.

Huh?

The scenario provided was you can choose blue or red.

You then said “well the only way to guarantee a good outcome is by choosing blue.”

I pointed out that isn’t true. You then said well conditional on everyone knowing that a kid took the blue pill and cooperation then the only way to guarantee a good outcome is blue.

But that changes they hypo.

conditional on everyone knowing that a kid took the blue pill and cooperation

No, not conditional on cooperation. Whether people cooperate or not, the only way to guarantee a good outcome is blue. I never said conditional on cooperation.

And I didn't say "conditional on everyone knowing that a kid took blue" either. What I said was, given that it is going to happen. The implication is not that it has already happened or that everyone knows that it will happen, but that it's a reasonable conclusion for everyone to draw given the premise.

Besides that, my meaning was clear in the original comment. Nothing I said here:

Yeah, there would probably be at least one 3-year-old though. There's only one way to guarantee everyone remains safe.

implied anything about coordination.

Then try writing precisely. You voting blue absent cooperation doesn’t guarantee anything. It only guarantees the possibility of a good outcome if you condition good outcome as “everyone lives.”

If you are so sure some might fuck up the decision, then perhaps we could reframe good outcome to mean “the most lives saved.” In that case, neither option ex ante guarantees anything.

Then try writing precisely.

Low effort.

You voting blue absent cooperation doesn’t guarantee anything.

Great, never said it did.

If you are so sure

Are you not? Genuinely? Is your honest position that literally nobody will make a mistake or misunderstand the question? If it is, I'm impressed by your faith in humanity. If not, don't pretend this is some kind of abstract hypothetical my argument relies on. It's not. It's just reality.

perhaps we could reframe good outcome to mean “the most lives saved.” In that case, neither option ex ante guarantees anything.

Great, never said either did.

I think we are at an impasse.

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