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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   30714 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 14, 2023

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So, if the Georgia state legislature changed the way presidential electors were chosen, what would be unconstitutional about that? What would he incorrect about Trump asking for such if Georgia had actually granted it?

Process, my dude. The legislature of Georgia has every right to change their method for selecting electors. They just need to amend the law. And Trump would be entirely in his rights to ask them to do that.

Trump did not ask them to change the prescribed method for choosing electors. He asked them to violate it. The distinction matters. You're allowed to change the law but you're not allowed to break the law.

This is a blueprint for destroying democracy, because anything could be defined as asking an official to violate their oath of office. Did you protest against the vaccine, when vaccines are in the public interest, and the public interest is in the oath of office?

Which oath of office would that be?

Don't be obtuse, you know what my argument is and you have constructed a technicality that in no way addresses it. Who decides the difference between asking for the law to be broken and the law to be changed? You make it sound as though your problem isn't with anything Trump did, but if only he had worded his request slightly differently, everything would have been fine. Come on, charging Trump with "soliciting" officers to "violate their oaths" is crazy, and the fact that this impresses you makes me question your credibility. Do you really not see any problems with this line of argument? The oath of office is a formality that is never enforced, you aren't worried about any precedents here, any unintended consequences, at all? Not even a little bit?

Who decides the difference between asking for the law to be broken and the law to be changed?

The difference is very clear. There is a prescribed process for changing the law. You introduce a bill, it gets voted on, it gets signed, it becomes an act. You don't just appoint someone as an elector who has not met the legislated requirements, which is what Trump asked for.

if only he had worded his request slightly differently, everything would have been fine.

I wouldn't describe it as "slightly" differently, the distinction is large and important in my eyes. It would not have been the same request. But yes, if he had done legal things instead of illegal things, he would indeed have been fine.

you aren't worried about any precedents here, any unintended consequences, at all? Not even a little bit?

If enforcing the law on a criminal sets a precedent, it would be a good precedent to set.

Now, please answer my question. What oath of office includes "the public interest"? I looked and couldn't find one. I'm sure you wouldn't just make something like that up.

So basically every American is guilty of at one time petitioning the POTUS to do an unconstitutional executive order?

I have to award the points to him because this feels like it’s constantly violated and the sweeping effects of it would be everyone goes to jail and we have no one out of jail to be prison guards.

The precedent you want to set is well everyone goes to jail if applied equally.

Hey, I want you to do this scheme.

Option A — Scheme is implemented illegally.

Option B — Scheme is implemented illegally.

So clearly unless someone says “do Option B” they mean “do Option A.”

If Trump had said “I want you to organize a special election to provide a different slate but first pass a law saying we are changing how the slate is chosen and the governor must sign it, and then conditional on that passage here is our slate” presumably you would say that was legal.

But because he cut to the end goal without specifying the steps you think it is…damning? You are intuiting Option A when B could be just as viable.

There is also a big mens rea issue here

You don't just appoint someone as an elector who has not met the legislated requirements, which is what Trump asked for.

Georgia's legislature could change those legislated requirements, that's what it means for them to be a legislature. Except, I'm sure, there's some a priori excuse why when Trump asks for this, there's a special exception because he didn't do it very nicely.

enforcing the law on a criminal sets a precedent, it would be a good precedent to set.

This is a political prosecution, what are you talking about? The precedent being set isn't that people who break the law go to jail, it's that people the government likes get off and people the government dislikes get prosecuted. You cannot be missing the point this badly. There is no fairness here, they are not about to use this precedent to arrest Democrats who wanted 2016 overturned. This is an insane gap in your argument.

Now, please answer my question. What oath of office includes "the public interest"? I looked and couldn't find one. I'm sure you wouldn't just make something like that up.

Of course I made it up, it was a hypothetical! Backhanded sarcasm troll concern "I'm sure you wouldn't just..." Don't be rude!

Well it seems a bit silly to argue that "anything could be defined as asking an official to violate their oath of office" when your own example doesn't.

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