site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of August 7, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

9
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Kids of widows and wealthy, successful divorcees do worse in the aftermath of their mother's death or parents' divorce. It's not just genetics, even controlled for ancestry, class, wealth, parental background in every respect, children of single mothers do worse. For single fathers it's a mixed bag, but data on children raised solely by a dad (let alone a widower) is very limited and in many of these cases (every single one I've heard of personally) there's a female relative who steps in quickly as a maternal figure, whether it's a grandmother or aunt or sister. Often she moves in or the kids move to her. The same isn't necessarily true for father figures for kids who lose (or never have) a dad. Kids being raised without at least one central female figure in their childhood is highly uncommon.

... I mean, divorces don't come out of nowhere. There's usually something wrong with either parent that it happens.

The true test would be finding a country with a lot of widowed parents and looking at outcomes of their children.

It's not just genetics, even controlled for ancestry, class, wealth, parental background in every respect, children of single mothers do worse

Do you remember what paper found that ?

Yeah, it seems to be quite a bit easier for widowers to remarry, and they are more motivated to remarry than widows. My best friend and I both lost our mothers when we were young and our dads quickly remarried—I think because they wanted someone to take care of the kids. I'd be surprised if single fathers are even really a thing.

I've long believed that women find it easier to transfer maternal instinct to non-biological children than men find it to transfer paternal instinct to them (although it's certainly possible in both cases). My just-so evopsych explanation is that women traditionally looked after children collectively whereas men taking more of an active role in child-rearing from a young age is more recent and largely coincides with the slow emergence of the nuclear family. I also think older men have less experience keeping a home, and so often face social pressure (from siblings, children, even friends) to remarry so they can keep their lives together and don't have to rely so much on family.