This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
It sounds like you already know what to do. Attraction is not a choice; your girlfriend’s a hater.
You will not convince her, as you haven’t already. You can’t logic someone out of a position they didn’t logic themselves into, especially a girlfriend.
Sure, maybe she’d be cool without air-conditioning, with a tiny house, with your salaries disappearing into the ether. However, if she won’t be cool with it, it’d only get blamed upon you. It’ll likely only get worse from here.
Stupid self_made_human, ugh, I can’t even. Our house is small, without omnipresent airconditioning, and we aren’t even saving up a bag. Plus these blokes keep hitting me up on Insta, Tinder, and chatting me up in the street…
I wish you good fortune in the wars to come.
Eh, this is debatable. I've met more than a few people who've held onto positions they've uncritically followed the footsteps of, until their first time someone came along and explicitly challenged their beliefs. I'd agree however, that the odds aren't good, considering the context, heh.
I actually do agree it's theoretically possible to logic someone out of a non-logic'd position, but it happens so seldomly for meatspace acquaintances and relationships that the probability can be lossily rounded to zero.
One possible counter-example of logic'ing people out of a non-logical position I thought of while I was writing that comment was the Pitbull Question (PQ), where it appears that the wrong-thinkers have been winning, even on Reddit. However, this was not accomplished by "Despite being 6% of the dog population, pitbulls commit 66% of all fatal attacks"-posting but rather spreading awareness, news articles, and videos of pitbull attacks, especially where the victims were sympathetic, like women and children. Anecdoting people out of a non-logical position.
It is not a coincidence that the PublicFreakout and ActualPublicFreakout-adjacent subreddits have strict rules against Noticing.
I agree with this.
As I already mentioned, I'm not at all that optimistic about the plausibility of most people changing their beliefs in light of a logical challenge to it. The overwhelming majority of people's beliefs are not arrived via logical deduction or consideration. Then again, that also includes people like us. I'd put to you a challenge I've tried subjecting myself to in the past. Try to formalize as many beliefs that you hold, consisting of premises that someone else should believe, on their face. I'd contend you couldn't do it. I couldn't, for most of my beliefs. As big of a believer as I am in logic and mathematics and hard empirical evidence, if those were the only beliefs I'd be willing to act on, I would be such a nerd. I'd never be able to interact with another human being. Not that I'm all that successful on that front, in the first place.
I think for most people, ignorance and impulse overpower ideology. I fully agree with the problem of Noticing. That's the biggest problem I've had, all across platforms like Reddit. Any ideology that lacks an update mechanism is going to force you to dig in your heels, and into highly uncomfortable positions, that have you defend the most insane looking ideas. But I don't think that's where the problem of Noticing stems from. People have their tribal identities and intellectually primitive beliefs before an ideological artifice begins to appear in the mind.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
Not going to report this because I don’t know if it breaks any rules, but you’re the one being a hater here friend. You didn’t even try to discuss anything about the thrust of his post, just told him his relationship was doomed. Come on now.
At least try to engage with the substance, and maybe throw this in as a post text if you absolutely have to.
Oh, how heckin magnanimous of you not to report, friend. Very wholesome.
If not for the “no, u” remark about being a hater, I would had thought this comment was meant elsewhere.
This is merely isolated policing of “thrust” engagement. I engaged; you just didn’t like the content of the engagement. At least ten of the paragraphs in OPs post were directly talking about the girlfriend, albeit granted some of the paragraphs were short.
So come on now, less of this mod-LARPing and passive aggressive condescension please.
Hey man, the Motte wouldn't be what it is without passive aggressive condescension. I find attacking someone's relationship online who you barely know based on one data point to be particularly distasteful. In general, I think the CW thread should be more focused on actual topics and arguments than our personal lives.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I don't feel like it's report worthy myself.
Deeply misguided, certainly, but that's not something I want to see being punished unless there's no other recourse.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
I know you're trying to look out for me, and I appreciate that, but even if the US doesn't work out, assuming I can fix the ECFMG issue, there are mutually acceptable countries like Australia or Canada on the cards.
A step down salary wise, but still better than the UK.
It's not as cut and dry as the US or my girlfriend.
I can only hope you trust me when I say that I've been with her long enough that I don't think this is a concern. If not, well I'm helpless to change your mind!
There are already dozens of men trying to chat her up on Insta, that's a fact of life for any pretty Indian girl, but she summarily blocks them even without reply. I see no reason not to rest the weight of my confidence on her, assuming her tiny frame could take it.
Err.. Thanks? I really don't think it'll come to that, not that we don't fight (a lot). Just not on those terms.
Is it somehow worse for Indian girls than whites girls? Or is it just that the kind of man to ask for bob and vagene online would more readily proposition an Indian girl instead of a different race?
Indian men usually have negative rizz for one (apologies for the zoomer slang, it basically means charisma or game).
I've slid into DMs with success before, and the way these guys go about it pains me. The first and most important principle is to not to lay it on too thick and maintain plausible deniability.
To an extent, many of them don't have better options, since Tinder in India might have even worse odds of getting laid per hour of swiping. Dating outside the workplace, college, or mutual friends is rather difficult and fraught.
I can't speak authoritatively as to what ails the white women of the world, since I haven't dated any, but in my eyes, common sense dictates that if they have to deal with the boobs and vagene crowd that leaks out onto the wider internet, Indian women have it worse. They just don't bitch about it as much!
*bobs
I'm sorry, I've already said I'm a bad Indian haha
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link