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ZorbaTHut  2yr ago (text post)   Edited 2yr ago   38704 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of September 12, 2022

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I disagree, and reiterate that 150 national guard scrambled to handle a busload of migrants is, in fact, not done for a "voluntary evacuation", and this situation bears no resemblance to disaster response generally. That is my evidence. You may find it unpersuasive, which is your right; partisans are always free to equivocate between what the evidence allows them to believe and what the evidence forces them to believe, but let us be honest with each other here. If you think a voluntary evacuation required deploying three soldiers per migrant, explaining your reasoning as to why should be trivial.

You're applying a mind-killingly low threshold of evidence for something you want to believe. This is the sort of "thinking" that fuels TDS, and you're just as ill.

It is incredible to assert that the situation bears no resemblance to disaster relief. These people were being set up in... disaster relief housing.

I can't find anything authoritative actually saying that these national guardsmen actually moved the immigrants. But enjoy citing vague articles and feeling superior.

It is incredible to assert that the situation bears no resemblance to disaster relief.

In a disaster, soldiers are useful in two ways: as immediate, capable manpower for strenuous physical activities like filling sandbags, cutting firebreaks, shifting rubble, searching for injured victims and so on, and as security against looting, chaos, and disobedience and disruption on the part of recalcitrant civilians.

Neither of these uses appear to apply in the case of the migrants. There was no rubble to shift, no sandbags to fill, no heavy labor to be done. There was no riot or disruption either. So why were they there? What were they doing?

I think they were there as intimidation: a big group of tough guys in uniform, outnumbering the migrants by a significant margin, making it clear that they were not welcome and should move along forthwith. You've given no argument at all for what they were doing, beyond vague and implausible appeals to "disaster relief." How would that actually work? What were the authorities doing that required 150 soldiers to show up and assist, in your mind? Was it carrying luggage? Handing out water bottles?

You're applying a mind-killingly low threshold of evidence for something you want to believe.

On the contrary, I think you are employing a mind-killingly high threshold for evidence for something you don't want to believe. I'm entirely comfortable with the fact that I could be wrong, and that there doesn't appear to be definitive proof available either way. If you actually want to offer a plausible scenario as to what 150 soldiers were doing to help a busload of migrants leave, I remain interested to hear it. But you appear to be taking offense at inferences drawn from what evidence is available, and I think that is foolish. We are not prohibited from drawing inferences here, only from being dogmatic and rude about it.

In a disaster, soldiers are useful in two ways: as immediate, capable manpower for strenuous physical activities like filling sandbags, cutting firebreaks, shifting rubble, searching for injured victims and so on, and as security against looting, chaos, and disobedience and disruption on the part of recalcitrant civilians.

Blatently false. Maybe this'll get through to you, but I suspect not.

After Katrina, 123 members of the national guard was activated to provide muscle at the disaster provide security provide sheltering capabilities at Joint Base Cape Cod for refugees.

And here in 2022, "the state will also activate up to 125 members of the National Guard to assist in the relief effort".

So in 2004 about 120 national guard members were activated to support refugees at Joint Base Cape cod... and in 2022 when about 120 national guard members were activated in conjunction with people being housed at Joint base Cape cod... it was for the purposes of intimidation. Hmmm!

If you actually want to offer a plausible scenario as to what 150 soldiers were doing to help a busload of migrants leave, I remain interested to hear it.

Where are you even getting this number of 150 soldiers?

After a quick perusal of your links, I think I'm wrong and you're correct. None of the photos actually show NG at Martha's Vineyard. Activating the National Guard seems to be a reference to ordering them to the base to help with taking care of the migrants, not ordering them to MV to collect the migrants. My guess is ~125 guardsmen is the size of a platoon or whatever, given the consistent amounts. I thought I got the number 150 from elsewhere in the thread, but the post I checked reads 125 now, so it might just be my own fault. I cheerfully retract any claims about National Guard being used for intimidation.

I am impressed by your willingness to reconsider.

I definitely concluded along the way that you weren't open minded, and I'm sorry for that.

It's all good. cheers, mate!

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