site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 26, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

It's the first step on "CPS taking kids away for being abusive, where "abusive" means 'does not affirm/support trans identity'".

So an "otherwise normal household" where the parents are divorcing and both are looking for custody, the court can consider Parent A to be an abusive parent if they don't accept that Johnny is now Susie. If this bill goes through, and it may or may not. But I think as straws in the wind it's indicative. After all, if it is "abuse" not to affirm your kid's gender identity, the next step is to protect trans kids by taking them out of abusive households.

My view is if a kid is 16 and insists they're trans, there's room to look for professional help about that. The kid is 18 and legally an adult, a parent may hate the idea but the kid can do what they want (so long as they're ready to move out and live independently). A kid is 12 and some dipshit counsellor with ear spools and green hair dye is giving them chest binders, new pronouns, and hiding it all from the parents? Not the job of the school, and if the school genuinely thinks the child is at risk of abuse (and I mean "beaten, assaulted, locked up, starved, yelled at abusively etc." and not "honey, are you sure? maybe you should talk to your therapist about this?") then they should be doing their job as mandatory reporters.

Because it's the worst of both worlds if the school goes "Well we actively lied to the parents about Jordynne (new name) being a boy and using 'he/him' pronouns in school and us letting him use the boys' locker room, because we feared his parents would be abusive to him, but we had no problem letting him go home every day to an abusive home with abusive parents where he was in danger of abuse (because let's be real, his parents were not going to beat or starve him)".