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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   32785 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 12, 2023

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I think the FBI basically concluded something very similar to what you and I are both saying, in fact, which is not actually that far apart.

A few key quotes from the actual statement:

Was there deliberate deletion? Seems not (they also reviewed the attorney process and found that basically it was just lazy and not very particular, using mostly header searches, thus not consistent with behavior trying to hide specific stuff)

I should add here that we found no evidence that any of the additional work-related e-mails were intentionally deleted in an effort to conceal them.

Was the rule-breaking willful? No, but "extremely careless".

Although we did not find clear evidence that Secretary Clinton or her colleagues intended to violate laws governing the handling of classified information, there is evidence that they were extremely careless in their handling of very sensitive, highly classified information

Should she have known better for certain conversations? Yes. I think your comment is right on the money about this point!!!

There is evidence to support a conclusion that any reasonable person in Secretary Clinton’s position, or in the position of those government employees with whom she was corresponding about these matters, should have known that an unclassified system was no place for that conversation.

But let's take a step back. I am in total agreement that it was monumentally stupid of her. But Hillary used a freaking BlackBerry. She wasn't that tech savvy. She ignored warnings about it being insecure. And as far as I can tell, they just discussed classified topics, with occasional lower level (confidential) copy-pasting going on, they weren't attaching fully marked documents.. I also don't think she really did the majority of her regular work via email either, like most of us do. It's not like 100% of her communications were through email like today they might be.

Was it hacked ever? No direct evidence, but didn't expect any, so hard to say. They use the phrase "possible":

Given that combination of factors, we assess it is possible that hostile actors gained access to Secretary Clinton’s personal e-mail account.

So does it meet the standard I propose, of "willful"? What about similar cases? The FBI here outlines four key areas that can help decide. THIS is the critical paragraph. Emphasis mine:

In looking back at our investigations into mishandling or removal of classified information, we cannot find a case that would support bringing criminal charges on these facts. All the cases prosecuted involved some combination of: clearly intentional and willful mishandling of classified information; or vast quantities of materials exposed in such a way as to support an inference of intentional misconduct; or indications of disloyalty to the United States; or efforts to obstruct justice. We do not see those things here.

While Hillary lied to the public a lot about the facts, she didn't lie to investigators about it. Thus no obstruction allegation. This is a key difference when comparing the Trump case, in addition to the "willful" aspect which is applicable to his actions after the Archives directly asked for the classified stuff back. That's why I made a comparison to "criminal negligence", which you seem to think is grounds for prosecution. I think that's a fair opinion to have, but ultimately a bad idea. Like in plane crashes, it's often best to allow immunity in these cases and focus on improving processes to learn from the mistakes and make sure it doesn't happen again. Which would have been the case if Trump had not been so incredibly prideful so as to refuse to return things and attempt to hide them when officially asked told to. She gave bad excuses, but not horrible ones. Avoiding FOIA requests is borderline illegal to illegal but not as severe a violation. Personal convenience was cited (she didn't want to give up her BlackBerry or use several phones).

To be clear, this is not to suggest that in similar circumstances, a person who engaged in this activity would face no consequences. To the contrary, those individuals are often subject to security or administrative sanctions. But that is not what we are deciding now. As a result, although the Department of Justice makes final decisions on matters like this, we are expressing to Justice our view that no charges are appropriate in this case.

The above just lays out explicitly what we already know: A run of the mill employee might be charged, but civilian heads of department and top leaders get a bit more leeway. That's not super great, but also understandable. Also, it's important to ask-- were the people around her careful (i.e. was she an anomaly? No. She wasn't too abnormal. Just an old person who hates change and dislikes personal convenience.

While not the focus of our investigation, we also developed evidence that the security culture of the State Department in general, and with respect to use of unclassified e-mail systems in particular, was generally lacking in the kind of care for classified information found elsewhere in the government.

In summary: None of these reasons apply to Trump. I think it's totally appropriate and also consistent with the past to have him charged, found guilty, and then given a slap on the wrist type of sentence (or have the current President pardon him, only at that stage, similar to what happened with Nixon.)

Was there deliberate deletion? Seems not

Uh... I'll point to here. At best, Clinton's contractor willfully deleted e-mails three weeks after receiving a document retention request, and her chief of staff issued a deletion policy that violated the Federal Records Act. Which would only be a problem for this unnamed Platte River Networks employee and and Clinton's Chief of Staff. But they weren't prosecuted, either.

Like in plane crashes, it's often best to allow immunity in these cases and focus on improving processes to learn from the mistakes and make sure it doesn't happen again

There are different types of plane crashes. There are crashes caused by a malfunction in the plane systems, there are crashes caused by human error, and there are crashes caused by somebody deliberately directing a plane into the World Trade Center. Arguing that the latter should be handled by "improving the processes" and the direct perpetrators should be excused because with better planes and better buildings we could avoid all that would be insane. The behavior of Clinton was very deliberate and deliberately aimed at circumventing established laws and procedures. There's no "improving processes" that can deal with a person that deliberately chooses to not use the existing processes. You could claim "she did it just for convenience" (though the BleachBit part reveals it to be a lie, deleting anything on a server under data preservation request is a crime per se, but even without that it requires very motivated credulity to believe) but a crime made for one's convenience does not become less crime, it is still deliberate behavior to violate the law, not an accident.

This is delusional. The people prosecuting Donald Trump are not going through all this trouble just to give him a slap on the wrist. You have a seriously warped perspective about what is going on.

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