This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There are many components of personhood and "capacity for sapience" is just one of them. I'm not fully convinced that resuming a mind is actually any different than creating a new one, though. Say we could resurrect people--resurrected minds would be minds that ceased to exist for some period of time, and then were created anew. I don't think resurrection would be meaningfully different from creating a new mind with fake memories of a previous life, and I think resurrection would be a moral obligation.
The underrated Arnold Schwarzenegger film Sixth Day takes the moral position that clones with copied memories are their own people, whether their original still lives or not.
By contrast, the Star Trek transporter moves someone’s consciousness-in-brain instead of just copying it. The transporter in The Prestigeyou really should see the film before spoiling or discussing it here, but if you have, you can probably figure out why I referenced it in the Star Trek section .
As a Christian, I follow the teaching of my Rabbi upon seeing the dead girl, before resurrecting her: "Do not weep; for she is not dead, but sleeps." I am an odd duck on theology; I do not believe the mind can exist without a brain (mind-machine, not mind-container). Thus I expect upon death to have my mind moved into an upgraded, backwards-compatible, spirit-stuff mind-machine, a flawless brain in a body made of something more substantial than Fermionic matter.
Ha, something like this is pretty typical doctrine among knowledgeable members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The exact nature of our souls etc. is extremely unimportant relative to moral teachings, so it's not the sort of thing that's spread around much, but we believe that spirits are made of spiritual matter, i.e. matter we aren't currently able to perceive.
I'll go a step further and agree with you entirely on that.
My only impressions of Mormon theology come from biased sources and the Ender’s Game novels, so I have no reason to doubt your descriptions.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
It looks like your stance on afterlife is similar to my conception of it. Since the self cannot perceive nonexistence and is defined by perceiving, it must continue to exist.
Sounds like motivated reasoning to me... whether or not we like the idea of nonexistence has nothing to do with what happens to us after we die.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link