site banner
PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   38490 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of June 5, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

8
Top Bottom Old Controversial Comments
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

Hyperbole. But honestly, what do you believe should be done? I don't think you think the vote works, you don't think anything works. Institutions, taken over, all-powerful. Speech, controlled. Masses, brainwashed, irrelevant. Elites, locked in. Am I misrepresenting your opinions?

Nothing should be done because nothing can be done. You trying to mock him is in reality the accurate summary of the situation.

So you can’t win the smallest battles, you’re always losing, and you’re never going to do anything. Is that your plan?

I don't know about his plan, but mine the last couple years has been to drink myself to death.

I’m not really mocking him, I find his doomposting sometimes accurate, often amusing. But come on, this isn’t healthy or productive. How about all you AI doomers, climate doomers, woke doomers just be merry and wait for some real shit to hit the fan before you throw in the towel?

Lockdowns, BLM riots, Ashli Babbitt, the protest in question, and the Ukraine are not enough of SHTF for you? Anyway, I am merry! I cry gin-scented sentimental tears every night when I read HFY-type stories and imagine a species that wouldn't want my death because in the automated era I'm net negative for the controllers of the AI, a filthy carbon producer and meat eater, and a White male.

Lockdowns, BLM riots, Ashli Babbitt, the protest in question, and the Ukraine are not enough of SHTF for you?

Obviously not. I'm thinking starvation, total war, mass execution of dissidents in sports stadiums, that sort of thing.

Every decade you can find plenty of events of similar significance as "Lockdowns, BLM riots, Ashli Babbitt, the protest in question, and the Ukraine", they're nothing special, part of the humdrum of political life, like so many -gates. Of course some people are always predicting the end, but they don't have a good track record. Chances are, things will go on as always. OK, maybe the downward trajectory, real or imagined, bothers you. But don’t pretend that we’re about to hit the ground, or that it has already happened.

I do remember previous decades, you know. I had reasonable expectations of surviving those that preceded '20s. Hell, even you personally want people like me dead, if I'm not mixing up the usernames all blurred up in my vision currently.

Yeah I think you may be tired and emotional, I don't want you dead. It's not so bad, you might as well live. Please don't kill yourself on my account.

No, I checked, it was you who recently said that you're glad people of my ethnicity are dying. Fuck you all, I hope the AI will be a paperclipper.

Could you narrow it down? You mean russian conscripts, nazis in nazi germany? Because that's my ehtnicity too , I have no hostility towards it, it's okay to be white, you know.

What is this place?

This website is a place for people who want to move past shady thinking and test their ideas in a court of people who don't all share the same biases. Our goal is to optimize for light, not heat; this is a group effort, and all commentators are asked to do their part.

The weekly Culture War threads host the most controversial topics and are the most visible aspect of The Motte. However, many other topics are appropriate here. We encourage people to post anything related to science, politics, or philosophy; if in doubt, post!

Check out The Vault for an archive of old quality posts. You are encouraged to crosspost these elsewhere.


Why are you called The Motte?

A motte is a stone keep on a raised earthwork common in early medieval fortifications. More pertinently, it's an element in a rhetorical move called a "Motte-and-Bailey", originally identified by philosopher Nicholas Shackel. It describes the tendency in discourse for people to move from a controversial but high value claim to a defensible but less exciting one upon any resistance to the former. He likens this to the medieval fortification, where a desirable land (the bailey) is abandoned when in danger for the more easily defended motte. In Shackel's words, "The Motte represents the defensible but undesired propositions to which one retreats when hard pressed."

On The Motte, always attempt to remain inside your defensible territory, even if you are not being pressed.


New post guidelines

If you're posting something that isn't related to the culture war, we encourage you to post a thread for it. A submission statement is highly appreciated, but isn't necessary for text posts or links to largely-text posts such as blogs or news articles; if we're unsure of the value of your post, we might remove it until you add a submission statement. A submission statement is required for non-text sources (videos, podcasts, images).

Culture war posts go in the culture war thread; all links must either include a submission statement or significant commentary. Bare links without those will be removed.

If in doubt, please post it!


Rules


Recommended Posts And Communities

Recommended Realtime Chats