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Culture War Roundup for the week of June 5, 2023

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The history of masking (especially cloth) showed very little ability to slow aerosols.

Thus the default should’ve been masking doesn’t work until proven otherwise.

The CDC studies to support masking were absurd (hair dresser anyone). The closest they came was the Bangladesh study which had some problems that likely put a thumb on the scale for masking. There they found cloth masks did nothing whereas surgical masks reduced the spread by about 10% but only in the very old.

Some people took that analysis and re-examined it and found even that claim was stretching.

There just is so little evidence supporting the efficacy of masks I don’t see why anyone would start with the default you’re asserting.

It seems to me there are two different claims here. First, did the evidence for the effectiveness of masks in reducing spread of covid warrant government mandated masking? Second, is the evidence against the effectiveness of masks strong enough to warrant the claim that they are "entirely ineffective"? I am not interested in arguing about the first claim. For the second claim, which is specifically the claim OP reported RFK Jr making and therefore the claim that is relevant to this discussion, I do not think you have provided strong evidence. For example, you only mention cloth and surgical masks and do not discuss other masks such as N95. I realize that the efficacy of cloth and surgical masks is relevant to the policy question, but leaving out N95 and the like is unconvincing if you want to argue that masks are "entirely ineffective" (and note that in my original comment I specifically mentioned that cloth masks are not very effective). Also, citing a single study that claims surgical masks reduce covid spread by 10% in the old and then vaguely hand-waving about people being skeptical of that study does not convince me that masks are entirely ineffective. It might convince me that surgical masks are not very effective or that the costs of requiring masks are not worth the benefits, but that was not the question at hand.

My point is you’ve reversed the question. There is no reason to expect cloth or surgical masks do anything. It is on you to prove that; not the other way around. Has nothing to do with mandates.

I'm not sure why you keep insisting on specifying "cloth or surgical masks" when the OP just said "masks." Also, there is a major societal dispute about whether masks (including N95 and the like) are effective. It seems reasonable to expect someone who claims they are "entirely ineffective" to have decent supporting evidence.

Let me just ask you directly: do you think it's true that N95 masks are entirely ineffective at reducing the spread of covid? If so, do you think the evidence for this is so obvious that no reasonable person should question it? If not, then I'm not sure what we're arguing about.

Because that’s how language works. Focusing on an entirely non central case (ie N95) obfuscates the issue. When people say they believe in God, I don’t assume them to be talking about Odin.

But to answer your question no I don’t think N95 as used did shit