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Culture War Roundup for the week of May 29, 2023

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I'm not sure it is clearly not true; there's a reason I wrote and emphasized probably, here, and the Sackett's property is already a pretty far outlier from the common read.

Is is clearly not true because the regulation clearly doesn't say what OP says it does. OP said it says one thing, when it says something else. Whether the Sackett's property falls within the (actual) regulatory definition is an entirely different issue.

PS: Again, not that it matters to the issue of OP's misstatement, but see the photos at the end of the Ninth Circuit opinion here. That does not look like " a pretty far outlier from the common read."

The site's google maps location is available here. The statute's definition to directly quote the opinion "the CWA prohibits the discharge of pollutants into only “navigable waters,” which it defines as “the waters of the United States, including the territorial seas,” 33 U. S. C. §§1311(a), 1362(7), (12)(A) (2018 ed.)".

The EPA's ability to literally ever find standing water ever seem more an example of the problem rather than a defense, unless you think the Congress of 1972 meant to include happy meal toys in their concept of navigable, and not care whether it'd have to teleport through dirt to go anywhere.

Now you seem to be making a different claim, i.e., that the regulatory definition of "wetlands" is inconsistent with the statutory defintion of "waters of the United States." That may be, but what does that have to with OP's erroneous claim?

The OP's claim was that :

Biden's EPA, which had attempted to define the navigable waters of the united states to mean any land on which there is any standing water at any time of the year.

Ignoring for now the nitpick that what the Biden (and Obama) EPA attempted and what made it into the final rule don't have to be the same thing, the Sackett property pictures in the lower court opinion seems to be a literal case of an environment where areas that had standing water only for a part of the year.

EDIT: to be clear, I think pushing back about it being certainly including any land which had any standing water for any time would be somewhat reasonable, but your implication that the current rule either a) had no modifications since the 1980s, or b) depended solely on the term wetlands, is not reasonable.

your implication that the current rule either a) had no modifications since the 1980s,

Well, the definition that I cited is exactly the same now as it was in 1980, and is exactly the same as what the Court says it was a few years later. So unless they changed it, then changed it back to the exact original language, my inference that the definition had no modifications since the 1980s is perfectly reasonable.

your implication that the current rule . . . depended solely on the term wetlands

OP made a claim that "Biden's EPA . . . attempted to define the navigable waters of the united states to mean any land on which there is any standing water at any time of the year." What can that possibly mean, other than a claim about what constitutes "wetlands," given that, as I said, 40 CFR 120.2 (ie., EPA regulations) defines "waters of the United States" to include wetlands, and "wetlands" to mean "those areas that are inundated or saturated by surface or ground water at a frequency and duration sufficient to support, and that under normal circumstances do support, a prevalence of vegetation typically adapted for life in saturated soil conditions." How could OP's claim about how Biden's EPA defines navigable waters possibly be anything other than a misstatement of that regulation, which is the current EPA regulation that defines navigable waters?

Well, the definition that I cited is exactly the same now as it was in 1980, and is exactly the same as what the Court says it was a few years later. So unless they changed it, then changed it back to the exact original language, my inference that the definition had no modifications since the 1980s is perfectly reasonable.

The rule is not the simple definition of "wetlands", and the regulation you've quoted but not linked makes that clear when read in full:

(a) Waters of the United States means:...

(4) Wetlands adjacent to the following waters:

(i) Waters identified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section; or

(ii) Relatively permanent, standing or continuously flowing bodies of water identified in paragraph (a)(2) or (a)(3)(i) of this section and with a continuous surface connection to those waters; or

(iii) Waters identified in paragraph (a)(2) or (3) of this section when the wetlands either alone or in combination with similarly situated waters in the region, significantly affect the chemical, physical, or biological integrity of waters identified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section;

(with some later exceptions)

These regulations do not require merely whether the land is a "wetland" under the CWA's definition, because not all wetlands are covered; if they are not adjacent to (a)(1) waters (aka territorial, interstate, or interstate commerce), adjacent to relatively permanent waters with a continuous surface connection, or wetlands "significantly affect"ing (a)(1) waters.

More importantly, this component has changed: see 2020, where "adjacent wetlands" has its own separate definition section, or 1986 where the "waters of the United States" rule had a section for intrastate wetlands where "the use, degradation or destruction of which could affect interstate or foreign commerce including any such waters" until they were largely invalidated by SWANCC v Army Corps) (focusing directly on the Migratory Bird Rule as a particular extension of the "affect interstate or foreign commerce" interpretation) and Rapanos.

The 2015 rule was... a bit of a clusterfuck, even in its final form (ed: with irrelevant sections excised):

... the term ‘‘waters of the United States’’ means:

(i) All waters which are currently used, were used in the past, or may be susceptible to use in interstate or foreign commerce, including all waters which are subject to the ebb and flow of the tide;

(ii) All interstate waters, including interstate wetlands;[...]

(v) All tributaries, as defined in paragraph (3)(iii) of this definition, of waters identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition;

(vi) All waters adjacent to a water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (v) of this definition, including wetlands, ponds, lakes, oxbows, impoundments, and similar waters;

(vii) All waters in paragraphs (1)(vii)(A) through (E) of this definition where they are determined, on a case- specific basis, to have a significant nexus to a water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition. The waters identified in each of paragraphs (1)(vii)(A) through (E) of this definition are similarly situated and shall be combined, for purposes of a significant nexus analysis, in the watershed that drains to the nearest water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition. Waters identified in this paragraph shall not be combined with waters identified in paragraph (1)(vi) of this definition when performing a significant nexus analysis. If waters identified in this paragraph are also an adjacent water under paragraph (1)(vi), they are an adjacent water and no case-specific significant nexus analysis is required.

(A) Prairie potholes. Prairie potholes are a complex of glacially formed wetlands, usually occurring in depressions that lack permanent natural outlets, located in the upper Midwest. [geographically removed examples excised...]

(viii) All waters located within the 100-year floodplain of a water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition and all waters located within 4,000 feet of the high tide line or ordinary high water mark of a water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (v) of this definition where they are determined on a case-specific basis to have a significant nexus to a water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition. For waters determined to have a significant nexus, the entire water is a water of the United States if a portion is located within the 100-year floodplain of a water identified in paragraphs (1)(i) through (iii) of this definition or within 4,000 feet of the high tide line or ordinary high water mark. Waters identified in this paragraph shall not be combined with waters identified in paragraph (1)(vi) of this definition when performing a significant nexus analysis. If waters identified in this paragraph are also an adjacent water under paragraph (1)(vi) of this definition, they are an adjacent water and no case-specific significant nexus analysis is required.

wwwweeeeee, that's a fun read. But for a tl;dr, it required only that "wetlands" be used in interstate commerce, be interstate, be adjacent to interstate waters or those subject to the flow of the tide, or have a significant nexus to one of the above waters and be in either a 100-year floodplain or 400 feet of a high-water mark or be within certain geographic types (Idaho, mostly prarie potholes). (Some exceptions not relevant here.)

This isn't literally every place that has standing water, fair! There's a specific exception for puddles! (Slightly snarky of one.) But this very clearly isn't the 1986 rule, or the pre-1986 rule, not least of all it's specifically written to respond to Rapanos.

OP made a claim that "Biden's EPA . . . attempted to define the navigable waters of the united states to mean any land on which there is any standing water at any time of the year." What can that possibly mean, other than, other than a claim about what constitutes "wetlands,"...

Well, at the risk of stating the obvious, a claim about what is defined as a navigable water, emphasis added by you. Again, if your claim was that the definition of the navigable waters used against the Sacketts in 2007 predated the Biden administration, you're quite right! If you want to say that the term navigable is a bit of an afterthought that remains due to the history of 33 USC 1344, and the various rules really modified the definition of "waters" that navigable waters then used, sure, if perhaps procedural enough to be boring. But if your claim is that the definition of the navigable waters has not changed or that we care solely on the definition of "wetlands" no further limitations, than there's literally dozens of pages of NPM and Final Rule showing your error. And these definitions are at the crux of the case here.

But if your claim is that the definition of the navigable waters has not changed and is solely a matter of "wetlands"

No, that is NOT my claim. My claim is that the definition of wetlands has not changed, because that was the definition to which OP was referring, even if OP is too ignorant to understand that. As I stated in my initial response, navigable waters includes, but is not limited to, "wetlands", and the definition of "wetlands" has not changed. And if "wetlands" does not include "any land on which there is any standing water at any time of the year," then what part does?

This isn't literally every place that has standing water, fair! There's a specific exception for puddles!

Show me precisely where the rule you quote applies to "any land on which there is any standing water at any time of the year." Because the Supreme Court stated almost 20 years ago that "the Act's use of the traditional phrase "navigable waters" (the defined term) further confirms that it confers jurisdiction only over relatively permanent bodies of water." Rapanos v. United States, 547 US 715 (2006)

Finally, your reference to the 2015 rule is nice, but it certainly does not support OP's claim about "Biden's EPA" promulgating new definitions. And, btw, what part of that 2015 reg is new, as opposed to a repeat of language that has been around for 40 years (such as, yes, the definition of "wetlands" on p. 37106)?

My claim is that the definition of wetlands has not changed, because that was the definition to which OP was referring, even if OP is too ignorant to understand that.

So you were stuffing words in his mouth while being wrong yourself?

As I stated in my initial response, navigable waters includes, but is not limited to, "wetlands", and the definition of "wetlands" has not changed.

No, again, "navigable waters" does not include all "wetlands" as an full set, and to my knowledge has never done so across 50 years of regulatory interpretation despite the best efforts of the EPA. And "navigable waters" (or "waters of the United States") is the relevant term that describes the limits of the EPA's jurisdiction for Clean Water Act purposes. The law and regulation prohibits discharge of pollutants on "navigable waters" of the United States, and these only include those defined in 40 CFR 120. You know, the thing that you've been quoting repeatedly for the definition of "wetlands"? Except it does not have, under its definitions of the "waters of the United States", a simple line of just "a) wetlands (all of them, really)".

It includes some wetlands, whose borders have been subject to 50 years of nazel-gazing argument. It does not include every wetland, nor does it in practice often act as the primary constraint on whether specific lands fall under the CWA.

And if "wetlands" does not include "any land on which there is any standing water at any time of the year," then what part does?

Well, for the 2015 version and for the very specific question of the Sacketts, "all waters located within 4,000 feet of the high tide line or ordinary high water mark of a water identified in paragraphs (a)(1) through (5) of this section where they are determined on a case-specific basis to have a significant nexus to a water identified in paragraphs (a)(1) through (3) of this section", given that the Sacketts were within 4000 feet of Priest Lake.

For the 2022 one: "Intrastate lakes and ponds, streams, or wetlands not identified in paragraphs (a)(1) through (4) of this section: (i) That are relatively permanent, standing or continuously flowing bodies of water with a continuous surface connection to the waters identified in paragraph (a)(1) or (a)(3)(i) of this section; or (ii) That either alone or in combination with similarly situated waters in the region, significantly affect the chemical, physical, or biological integrity of waters identified in paragraph (a)(1) of this section."

For the 2023 one:

  1. All other waters such as intrastate lakes, rivers, streams (including intermittent streams), mudflats, sandflats, wetlands, sloughs, prairie potholes, wet meadows, playa lakes, or natural ponds, the use, degradation, or destruction of which would or could affect interstate or foreign commerce including any such waters:

i. Which are or could be used by interstate or foreign travelers for recreational or other purposes; or ii. From which fish or shellfish are or could be taken and sold in interstate or foreign commerce; or

iii. Which are used or could be used for industrial purposes by industries in interstate commerce;[...]

  1. Tributaries of waters identified in paragraphs (a)(1) through (4) of this section;

There's a fair criticism that this is not literally any land with any standing water at any time of the year. There is not a fair criticism that the relevant parts of the regulation have stayed static, just because one part of one term has not been redefined. Wetlands (and in some versions, ponds) have had massive revisions in how connected they must be to other waters before they fall under the EPA (and Army Corp of Engineers) jurisdiction for CWA purposes, separate from whether they were literally wetlands (or, for some rules, ponds, and playas, and yada yada).

And, btw, what part of that 2015 reg is new, as opposed to a repeat of language that has been around for 40 years (such as, yes, the definition of "wetlands" on p. 37106)?

Literally the entire section I quoted. That's why I was quoting them, to contrast the differences. You can see the big sections I'm quoting, right? Not being obliterated by CSS issues or bad screen contrast? I tried leaving some as inline quotes in this post in case it helps.

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