This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
To put this in perspective, I live in an extremely densely populated city (Hong Kong) that would be unlivable as a car city. However, if the buses or metro became dangerous, then the middle classes could switch to the taxis, which aren't that much more expensive due to ultra-cheap labour.
The metro is uncomfortable and noisy - most carriages have TVs playing news and advertising - but crime on the trains is inconceivable. The only "offence" that I have seen is someone taking a surreptitious drink of water on a hot day, since eating and drinking anything is banned on the metro or in the paid areas of metro stations.
If I were a criminologist, I would spent my career studying how HK has eliminated most forms of crime, without usually feeling like a "police state". To what extent is it cultural? Institutional? Economic? Selection (so much of this city of made up of immigrants like myself, who were indirectly selected for conscientiousness)?
The worst “offence” that I’ve witnessed on the MTR (back when I was still in Hong Kong) were obvious mainlanders taking a leak in a carriage, though it was pretty rare, and I think incidents of that sort have dropped off a fair bit with mainland Chinese visitors developing more of a modern city culture. I haven’t been back since before covid, though.
Yes, I've only smelt piss once on the MTR, and given that it was on an extremely crowded day, I think that it was just a child or an old person being incontinent.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
The problem is they already know and hate the answer to this: to make a city with Kong Kong levels of crime in the US, all you need to do is get 99.2% of the non-Asians (and 100% of the blacks) to move out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Hong_Kong
~100%, though the overwhelming majority of black people in Hong Kong are African or Caribbean rather than from the US, and selected for conscientiousness and IQ e.g. students and skilled workers. There are some asylum seekers, but not enough to cause problems - the troublesome minorities, in my experience, are Middle Eastern and South Asians, who beg (generally illegal) and sell drugs (extremely illegal, the government even has a public health campaign right now about the dangers of even moderate drinking for cancer etc.).
More options
Context Copy link
It’s possible that would require Hong Kong demographics, but I think most people would be satisfied if things returned to the way they where in 2005-2010, which is obviously achievable in the us when there are better incentives.
Perhaps. But then study Guiliani era NYC, not Hong Kong.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link