This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
Gotcha, yeah it's frustrating because they make it so easy for the arguments to get smeared as right-wing religious or whatever to the centre-left. It's also unfortunate because it seems homosexual acceptance has actually improved over the last decades.
But I do have some sympathy for the fears, in addition to gay books they were presumably also getting rid of the 'I am Jazz' stuff, which I do consider grooming. Because of the head start this ideology has, it's quite possible that your children are exposed at an early age to it without you even being aware. And libraries aren't neutral on this topic. A friend of mine tried to get some adult books telling the trans story from the critical side (ie books by Helen Joyce, Abigail Shrier etc) and all were turned down - of course you can't expect the library to accept a book request just because you send it, but it's notable how captured the public library is by gender ideology - there was a quick link to various books on how you can choose your gender etc, over all age groups on the website, yet you won't find any of the books critical of it. Indeed there is a prominent trans flag in the library, which, try as I might to not to 'morally panic' about, feels like living under an authoritarian regime.
That's enough to create a sense of urgency and rage for some people to take matters into their own hands. I don't agree with it personally, particularly when perfectly suitable books about being gay are included, or even trans stories which deserve to be told as any other for the right ages (though I think trans stories are prone to reinforcing misunderstandings about the nature of gender, identity and the self, overstate the empirical weight of their first person experience, and are contributing to the social contagion in the current environment, presenting it as a positive or transcendent lifestyle choice and glossing over the medical realities).
So I'm torn, I don't agree with censorship but I also welcome some active resistance to the authoritarian environment we're in and I'm clear on what's starting the whole chain-people are actually trying to influence young children with these ideas that don't make any sense, and may contribute non-negligibly to the risk of them getting medical treatment through contagious ideas (though obviously not without other factors in play).
More options
Context Copy link