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PaperclipPerfector  1yr ago (text post)   37215 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of April 10, 2023

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Congratulations, you are now a proponent of warlordism and a fierce opponent of liberal democracy. Or perhaps you misunderstand the types of regime that make power most accessible.

No? Warlords don't allow people to obtain power, they would work to ensure that theirs was the only one.

In contrast, Apple cannot prevent Google from releasing phones and trying to break Apple's share of the smartphone market. This is a consequence of our decidedly not-warlord society.

You can do that in any regime, and if you can't that means it's not long for this world.

Under a feudal system, my right to weapons that can easily threaten people would probably be taken away to ensure the power of the rulers. There's a reason people say that Sam Colt made men equal. Despite this, feudalism lasted quite a while.

You don't elect representatives friend, representatives have themselves elected by you.

How so? Nothing stops me from, in theory, running a popular candidate who isn't part of the dominant clique and unseating the existing representative.

Indeed, and by the cruel mercy of God, the many never rule the few.

You're banking on coin flips as to who is going to be on top. Let's hope you're good at predicting the outcomes of those flips.

Quite and this is why naive conservatism is a futile position. However build a new sand castle upon the ruins wrought by the tide, that he can. In fact that's probably the only thing that can ever be done, in a sense.

Or, you know, we could just...not. Like, as much value there is to be had in demolishing a society to rebuild it in your own image, the constant fights over precisely this are wasteful and disastrous. There's an existing system under which you can get away with a great deal. The grander your expectations, the more effort you require, but that's how it's always been, yes?

Warlords don't allow people to obtain power, they would work to ensure that theirs was the only one.

Warlords and their clique are people, are they not? Sure they seek to monopolize, but that is the nature of power. Power is never shared. And in a national democratic system it is not either, and the ruling elite is smaller than the combined cliques of a dozen warlord provinces.

Apple cannot prevent Google from releasing phones and trying to break Apple's share of the smartphone market. This is a consequence of our decidedly not-warlord society.

All that it means is that they fought and lost. Because they are not sovereign, and don't actually decide who is allowed to make smartphones. Yet they still do so under the authorization of somebody. If USG decided to hand a monopoly to Apple, they could have, but they did not because corporate power is a castle that has to be maintained in constant flux so as to not compete with the castles of the managerial sovereigns. They very well might have handed such an honor if Apple was significantly more willing to play ball with surveillance than Google.

Under a feudal system, my right to weapons that can easily threaten people would probably be taken away to ensure the power of the rulers. There's a reason people say that Sam Colt made men equal. Despite this, feudalism lasted quite a while.

Then you're not an elite. The feudal system had quite a lot of men-at-arms and knighthoods for specific kinds of expertise. Yes the ruling elite has the power to exclude you if they consider you too dangerous, however unwise it is to do so. They hold this power in any regime.

Ask Trump how he feels about it.

How so? Nothing stops me from, in theory, running a popular candidate who isn't part of the dominant clique and unseating the existing representative.

And yet everything does stop you, in practice. Because the myth that you are told about how democracy works is not the practical reality. Without large amounts of support from existing institutions or alternate ones, competition is impossible.

Consider all these studies that have been made that show that the will of constituants has insignificant influence on a politician's conduct in office compared to the will of his donors. Consider how deeply unpopular politicians still remain part of a system that should exclude them if it worked they way you think. Consider again, how most of the levers of power are not actually in the hands of any elected body but within an entrenched administration that only answers to the politicians in theory.

Even if you did manage to get elected in a fluke, you'd still hold no power. Because just because it says people should do your bidding on paper doesn't mean jack shit. I point yet again to Trump and his generals who should really be in prison for disobeying his direct legal orders if the system worked anything close to the way you think. But it doesn't.

You're banking on coin flips as to who is going to be on top. Let's hope you're good at predicting the outcomes of those flips.

I am not. The few ruling the many is a sociological law of the universe that has never been broken. It is true even in a mob.

I did not say that I would like the few in question, or that replacing fews that I don't like wasn't risky. But you either convince them to give you what you want or forcibly replace them with more amenable people, there is no third way.

as much value there is to be had in demolishing a society to rebuild it in your own image, the constant fights over precisely this are wasteful and disastrous

The current elite is so deeply incompetent and unable to integrate the people who would vouge for my preferred agenda that confrontation is inevitable. Most of the very reasonable things that I and a lot of others want are impossible without a coup and secession has been made deeply illegal. In this situation there is no choice.

Warlords and their clique are people, are they not? Sure they seek to monopolize, but that is the nature of power. Power is never shared. And in a national democratic system it is not either, and the ruling elite is smaller than the combined cliques of a dozen warlord provinces.

The point is that under liberal democracy, there are different freedoms and powers one has/can get that, in my view, stack up to favor it over warlordism.

Consider all these studies that have been made that show that the will of constituants has insignificant influence on a politician's conduct in office compared to the will of his donors. Consider how deeply unpopular politicians still remain part of a system that should exclude them if it worked they way you think.

Politicians vote how they want on issues that society doesn't consider salient. If it's very visible and watched over, they vote how their constituents want. They also work to help their own supporters with working with the government. This is broadly known by everyone, no myths required.

The current elite is so deeply incompetent and unable to integrate the people who would vouge for my preferred agenda that confrontation is inevitable. Most of the very reasonable things that I want are impossible without a coup and secession has been made deeply illegal. In this situation there is no choice.

What exactly are you asking for that is "very reasonable", and by whose standard?

The point is that under liberal democracy, there are different freedoms and powers one has/can get that, in my view, stack up to favor it over warlordism.

And I think those are fictitious and mythical because in practice there never is or was anything such as the separation of powers.

Politicians vote how they want on issues that society doesn't consider salient. If it's very visible and watched over, they vote how their constituents want. They also work to help their own supporters with working with the government. This is broadly known by everyone, no myths required.

Right, and what "society considers salient" magically always coincides with what the ruling class actually wants and what the media they control decide to talk about. Funny that.

I think considering democracy to be a system of justification rather than decision requires far less complexity to explain the behavior of its systems. But it is of course not compatible with believing in it being in any way special.

What exactly are you asking for that is "very reasonable", and by whose standard?

Abolishing censorship, public order being restored, the death penalty for serious crimes, the promotion of traditional family values, national sovereignty, reducing immigration to culturally manageable levels, having the economy reward the production of real goods instead of financial products.

The standard would be history I suppose. But these are all things most people in most countries want anyways in you ask them. It's not what the elite believe in however, and they can't be convinced to allow it because the underlying problems are load bearing for their power or the justification thereof, which is what really matters.

Right, and what "society considers salient" magically always coincides with what the ruling class actually wants and what the media they control decide to talk about. Funny that.

I guess that's one place we'll just disagree on interpretation. So be it.

Abolishing censorship, public order being restored, the death penalty for serious crimes, the promotion of traditional family values, national sovereignty, reducing immigration to culturally manageable levels, having the economy reward the production of real goods instead of financial products.

Be more specific, please. Saying things like "abolish censorship" or "promoting family values" is vague and leaves me guessing what you actually want. Also, where do you live that "national sovereignty" is something you don't have? I assume the EU.

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