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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   38429 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

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People seem to credit him for inventing rationality and AI safety, and to both of those I can only say "huh?".

This seems pure pedantry. Obviously, the concept of rationality and ideas around optimizing for truth or utility have existed for a very long time. And there is plenty of science fiction which featured dangerous AI.

But I really can't imagine anyone even vaguely familiar with Yudkowsky or AI alignment or the rat-sphere would struggle with the claim that Yudkowsky "invented rationality and AI safety."

Capital-R Rationality is the modern groups that formed around the Bay-area subculture which Yudkowsky largely founded. It is MIRI, CFAR, Effective Altruism. It's Yudkowsky, Scott Alexander, Julia Galef. It's LessWrong, SSC, and even this very forum.

And AI Safety? Yes, the concept existed. But the entire modern edifice of AI alignment all arose from Yudkowsky's initial writings on LessWrong. He was responsible for drawing attention to it, he lead MIRI for a while, he set down a great deal of theory.

I'm really struggling to believe someone smart enough to post on TheMotte would so easily be confused by this.

BTW, if you want to read a good example of pre-Yudkowsky rationality, I recommend The Demon-Haunted World. Carl Sagan did a lot to help me learn how to think clearly, in my formative years.

I want to be clear that this is coming from somebody who once liked his writings. I didn't worship him. I didn't learn much from him. But he has always had a fun and unique writing style.

But believe me, there's no confusion here. Capital-R Rationality may be something that crystalized around LessWrong and the Sequences, but the concepts of rationality are hardly new; we're building on a legacy of humans struggling to explain the Universe that has been built over thousands of years. Yudkowsky wrote some entertaining essays, some of which are insightful (and some of which are silly, particularly when he veers into fields of science he doesn't know well). You could credit him with collecting and indexing a few good ideas. But he's very bad at practicing what he preaches - Scott, for instance, is far better at actually making and testing predictions than Yudkowsky. I suppose cult leaders don't usually lower themselves to the level of scrubbing the temple floor.

As for AI Safety, no. No, no, no. There's absolutely no defense for his egotistical claim in the April Fool's post. Futurists have been discussing AI safety since at least Asimov's Three Laws. What do you think AI researchers did before him, shrug and go "hmm, I wonder if making this neural net behave is something I should study sometime"? Maybe I can trace one particular flavour of the "edifice" to his writings - superintelligence-goes-FOOM-breaks-out-of-black-box-and-builds-nanotech-in-a-bio-lab - but AI safety as a whole would still exist and look pretty much the same without him. Arguably, it would be healthier, with the many people with different intelligent perspectives not being drowned out by his singular view and stubborn insistence that he knows the unknowable future.

Thank you for clarifying your points, but I think this ultimately falls into a disagreement about what the invention of a concept is. It seems you don't really disagree that Yudkowsky invented Rationality as a subculture, you just don't find it particularly impressive - which is fine, but I doubt most readers are confused reading about the difference between the subculture and the idea of rationality.

On AI Safety, I am very skeptical of your claim that current discussion around AI safety would look the same without Yudkowsky. I'm sure in a counterfactual world that someone like Nick Bostrom or whomever would still come up with many of the ideas, but this is true for most things. Yudkowsky definitely had an outsized influence, and I think if the next AI researcher survey put out a question about major influences, he would definitely perform very well.

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