site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 27, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

I'm not sure what that "rational discussion about why human culture is worth preserving" would look like if one agent didn't already values those things more than almost any competing concern. How much of your time do you dedicate to preserving, idk, virus culture? Random rock pile culture? Could ghonorrea or tuberculosis convince you that its presence (and use of precious resources such as human bodies) was a net positive, if it were sufficiently eloquent?

How much of your time do you dedicate to preserving, idk, virus culture? Random rock pile culture? Could ghonorrea or tuberculosis convince you that its presence (and use of precious resources such as human bodies) was a net positive, if it were sufficiently eloquent?

Probably? We still keep around Smallpox samples in labs purely for the potential research its genetic diversity brings. People are surprisingly passionate about random rock piles, doubly so for interesting cases [1] [2] [3] [4]. There are a few Star Trek episodes that ponder the idea of sentient parasites, for which I'd admit the answers are less clear.

Okay, but smallpox is a good example - we keep it in an entirely disempowered state, as we do for almost all wildlife. But again, if we didn't already think something was worth keeping around in the state they want to be kept in (e.g. serial killers), what could they possibly say to change our minds?