This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
None of the countries with police and a penal system eliminated crime => We should abolish police. QED
Where does paying for commons end and unjust redistribution starts? Public schools? Public infrastructure in some Podunk and rural areas where just a handful of people would benefit from it at the expense of urban folk?
Also oftentimes "libertarians" (not necessarily you) forget their opposition to redistributive "theft" as long as their favorite topic is concerned. Ah, so great for Orban to implement policies that might increase fertility, like cash payments to young parents! We should subsidize local businesses to compete with China! Veterans should have access to cheap healthcare and education!
And some might say that not giving when you are able to is evil
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Proverbs%2022:9&version=KJV
I am not an advocate for redistributive policies, but I don't find "you will not reduce poverty by gifting the poor the rich's wealth" argument persuasive.
Crime tends to diminish with increased policing. Poverty doesn't diminish with increased redistribution.
There are many opinions amongst liberals on this, as you know. As a Hobbesian I tend to take a much larger view that may include a sense of the people's welfare so I'd go as far as social security schemes being legitimate even as I'm skeptical of their long term viability in practice.
The clear bright line is confiscation. You can't take from someone for the purpose to give to someone else. Redistribution qua redistribution is tyranny.
In my country legal precedent sets this to at least include 70%+ tax brackets on anybody. Of course my ideal state only really collects tariffs and not silly things like income taxes, and I personally view property and income taxes to be confiscatory. Good sensible centrist that I am, historically speaking.
Of course it is. But confiscating property also is. Charity at the point of the sword is no charity at all.
"And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just."
Why? We've tried it. God knows we've tried it. Over millions of bodies we've tried it. Over centuries we've tried it. Only to find ruin every time.
I think history shows the poor are better served with good government than with the delusions of socialism. I should rather ask you why you think it would work this time.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link