site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 20, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

13
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

In 1948, The US government joined a black plaintiff and their black lawyers in suing

Nope. Although once the cases reached the Supreme Court, the US govt filed an amicus brief, as is often the case, the lawsuits (there were two companion cases) were each filed by neighbors seeking to prevent the sale of a home to a black guy: "On October 9, 1945, respondents, as owners of other property subject to the terms of the restrictive covenant, brought suit in the Circuit Court of the city of St. Louis praying that petitioners Shelley be restrained from taking possession of the property" 341 US 1, 6. "The second of the cases under consideration comes to this Court from the Supreme Court of Michigan. The circumstances presented do not differ materially from the Missouri case. . . . By deed dated November 30, 1944. petitioners, who were found by the trial court to be Negroes, acquired title to the property and thereupon entered into its occupancy. On January 30, 1945, respondents, as owners of property subject to the terms of the restrictive agreement, brought suit against petitioners in the Circuit Court of Wayne County. After a hearing, the court entered a decree directing petitioners to move from the property within ninety days." 341 US 1, 7.

Of course, by US government I mean; Jewish solicitor general Philip Elman, four Jewish lawyers and not a single gentile lawyer.

Perlman, not Elman. And, according to the Supreme Court opinion, "With him on the brief was Attorney General Clark," - that would be Tom Clark, who does not appear to be Jewish.

Note critically, that restrictive covenants were private agreements between private homeowners

Do you know what else was a private agreement? The agreement between the seller, a white guy, and the buyer, a black guy.

Critically however, Jewish lawyers never appear on the anti-civil rights side of a case.

You mention Griggs later. In that case, "Lawrence M. Cohen argued the cause for the Chamber of Commerce of the United States as amicus curiae urging affirmance [i.e., in favor of Duke Power]".

Then there is the Bakke case, in which "Briefs of amici curiae urging affirmance [i.e., in favor of Bakke] were filed by . . . Abraham S. Goldstein, Nathan Z. Dershowitz, Arthur J. Gajarsa, Thaddeus L. Kowalski, Anthony J. Fornelli, Howard L. Greenberger, Samuel Rabinove, Themis N. Anastos, Julian E. Kulas, and Alan M. Dershowitz for the American Jewish Committee et al.; . . . by Philip B. Kurland, Daniel D. Polsby, Larry M. Lavinsky, Arnold Forster, Dennis Rapps, Anthony J. Fornelli, Leonard Greenwald, and David I. Ashe for the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith et al.; . . . [and] by Benjamin Vinar and David I. Caplan for the Queens Jewish Community Council et al."

The murder of IQ testing (Grigg's v. Duke Power Company)** ... Here again, the US government joined the black plaintiff in requesting that the Court establish the precedent that promoting based on intelligence tests would be like providing equality of opportunity "merely in the sense of the fabled offer of milk to the stork and the fox." In other words, presumptively discriminatory unless you could prove otherwise.

Nope. Rather the Court simply held that "Nothing in the Act precludes the use of testing or measuring procedures; obviously they are useful. What Congress has forbidden is giving these devices and mechanisms controlling force unless they are demonstrably a reasonable measure of job performance." 401 US 424, 436. And note that that is an interpretation of an act of Congress; if Congress did not like that interpretation, it was free to change the law.

Note also that, until the day that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 took effect, "the Company openly discriminated on the basis of race in the hiring and assigning of employees at its Dan River plant. The plant was organized into five operating departments: (1) Labor, (2) Coal Handling, (3) Operations, (4) Maintenance, and (5) Laboratory and Test. Negroes were employed only in the Labor Department where the highest paying jobs paid less than the lowest paying jobs in the other four "operating" departments in which only whites were employed.' Then, on the very day that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 took effect, the company added the IQ test requirement. 401 US 424, 427-428. The Supreme Court is not composed of morons.

Ok, I got the Cohen part wrong and this counts as a big dent on my credibility, and my argument. Sincere thanks! It's pretty blatant too, so I don't exactly have much to say for myself. I'll edit the post to include a partial retraction.

For interested readers: https://www.supremecourt.gov/pdfs/transcripts/1970/70-124_12-14-1970.pdf

I'll also check out the Bakke case, and post on it shortly.

Thanks. And please do take a hammer to any of my posts at any time.