site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 6, 2023

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

16
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

It reminds me of the Louis C.K. incident in that he asked to do something most think is totally fine if the person wants to do it. But there is a norm about not asking people to do weird sexual things unless you have already broken that social barrier.

Redditors have oddly unusual but also weirdly consistent opinions. There was a post a few years ago where someone was asking if he did something wrong when he slept with a girl who was relying on him for a ride home. It sounded perfectly consensual to me, but no exaggeration, about 99% of the commenters were adamant he had raped her.

The hive mind is real. They often are in near universal agreement on opinions that are, at best, controversial in the real world, if not in the distinct minority.

Another element of this is that people don't understand how cut throat social social interaction is. On the surface, people seem nice, but deep down, they only really care about their social status. This is not just about enforcing rules so as to maximize everyone's well being. A huge amount of shaming behaviour is just opportunistic social climbing. Many rules exist only to give socially adept people the ability to rise in relative status. The rules that exist to enforce niceness are arbitrary in what they allow and don't allow and should never be generalized.

A common mistake young men make is that they see sympathy being given out to people for having problems, so they think their problems will give them sympathy, but the opposite happens. Being socially awkward in a way that gives people permission to attack you will result in them enthusiastically attacking you. It doesn't matter if you aren't causing people harm or are deserving of sympathy. If you have a non-protected character flaw, you will be published for it.