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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   34967 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of March 6, 2023

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Was it mentioned in Pact/Pale at all that gods need belief? Sounds like they gain power from acts of worship, particularly ones that sacrifice something or give them claim over something (a mark on the body, for example).

IMO it's implied that pretty much everyone (god or not) is made stronger by others' belief, but yeah, you can probably have a god without that.

"I am what I am"

That's not a definition, that's a name. And it's not "I am what I am", it's "I am that I Am", as in "I am the great I Am".

I could believe that vastness works against there being a coherent God, but 1) this applies to all gods--for instance are the Greek and Roman versions of a god two separate entities? and 2) in-universe if this were much of a threat then the one true God would have shut it down rather than risk being fractured or having his power diluted.

More important than either of these objections, though--why are people Christians at all if there's no god behind it? That's an enormous open market for plenty of other gods who can easily work small miracles to get people to worship them instead.

for instance are the Greek and Roman versions of a god two separate entities?

Seems so. There are apparently numerous apocryphal offshoots of someone like Prometheus, one of which is Ulysse's patron.

in-universe if this were much of a threat then the one true God would have shut it down rather than risk being fractured or having his power diluted.

That's assuming he existed.

why are people Christians at all if there's no god behind it? That's an enormous open market for plenty of other gods who can easily work small miracles to get people to worship them instead.

Whatever Others facilitate the existence of Christianity as a religion among the Innocent, it doesn't have to be one Other and it doesn't have to be a god.

That's assuming he existed.

Yes, assuming he existed seems much safer than any other assumption, given all the other gods.

Whatever Others facilitate the existence of Christianity as a religion among the Innocent, it doesn't have to be one Other and it doesn't have to be a god.

It doesn't matter how Christianity got started. Now that it's around, either it has an actual basis, or there's a market opening for a god to come in and impersonate God. I suppose you could postulate some secret organization preventing that from happening, but there are still other issues with that, and overall it seems a lot safer and more accurate to just say "yeah the author just hasn't sufficiently addressed this point."

Yes, assuming he existed seems much safer than any other assumption, given all the other gods.

Why? The big God is clearly categorically different from pagan-tier gods, as his followers insist. Omnipotent, omnipresent etc. I can assume the Canaanite war god Yahweh existed, but assuming the monotheistic God existed (at least in the way Christianity describes him) is a bigger stretch.

Now that it's around, either it has an actual basis, or there's a market opening for a god to come in and impersonate God.

Many Others, even those who are not actual demons, apparently abuse devilish aesthetics. Presumably there are impersonators. It would take some enormous feet to fill God's boots, though, so I'm not surprised that none of them are bigger than small sect patrons.

I don't blame Wildbow for neglecting delving into Christian representation, because I don't find it interesting. Western culture is already suffused with Christianity enough.

Why?

Because this is how all the other gods work, obviously. You need QUITE a strong justification to argue that the Christian god follows other rules than any other god, especially considering that you also have to justify why Christianity grew more than any other religion despite being the only one without a god.

The big God is clearly categorically different from pagan-tier gods, as his followers insist.

OK, but at the very least there were plenty of Christian pagans who did believe in the big God but also believed in other gods. Even under the following baseless assumptions:

  1. Believing in a more universal god for some reason doesn't create that god

  2. Gods don't actually help their religions grow at all

  3. No god, incarnation, or other entity can impersonate God

you still run into issues because at the very least these Christian pagans are still around and would be providing a non-universal version of God quite a lot of power, possibly enough for him to be able to tap into the broader Christian power source.

presumably there are impersonators.

That's all I need! I don't even care whether God exists in-story, my gripe is that faith in him doesn't work where all the logic of the book says it should. There should be plenty of Christian sects worshipping impersonator gods and gaining power thereby.

Like a certain deity evoking imagery of nails, blood and three-fingered gestures?

Are you seriously claiming that Maricica impersonated the Christian God in a way at all relevant to what we're talking about?

No, she doesn't quite have enough desire or similarity for that. But I found it a funny set of minor parallels.

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