This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
This started as a post reply, but I decided to make a top level post instead. It's an opinion piece to sum up my own personal reflection on what used to be 'my side' of the culture war. I believe that by the very definition of racism itself if we used the 'privilege + power' definition a lot of Western institutions and cultural beliefs can easily be classified as racist and as a system of power and hegemony they may actually represent a cultural memeplex that blinds people to the true nature of their beliefs and creates a systemic myopia to what I would define as 'cultural white supremacy'. I'm kind of trying to get back into writing more, but unfortunately in many ways this is kind of a poor attempt and ought to be revised and revisited, and I kind of just wanted to get something out there.
There has been significant trade and cross-pollination of cultural ideas between East and West for a significant length of time. So much of what we would consider to be purely European or American cultural, political and economic ideas have been adopted wholesale or in large part by Eastern nations to the point where I would argue that the argument itself that 'white people' have no culture is in effect a product of the tacit white supremacy of progressive and left leaning intellectuals. It is pure narcissism in the way that they often assume the only cultures with agency are major Western powers and this by extension can deny that same agency to those whom are intended to be helped. The phrase "white people have no culture" can cause annoyance, or worse, to the people on the right; but, considering it as something that essentially camouflages a hegemonic belief system amongst powerful NGOs, governments and businesses that directly interface with a significant proportion of the global population I find it particularly chilling. Focusing attention on a few blow-hards and random easily provoked 'losers' isolated from real institutional power is a giant red herring against the very real and extremely powerful institutional power ideas on the left have.
Cultures can export much more than just music and consumer goods; there is a whole spectrum of significant cultural adoption and adaption to new technologies, economics, geopolitical realities and social/societal relations. Europeans sold much more than guns for instance, they also shared the military culture and tactics that stemmed from it as well. One of the biggest factors is the adoption of Western style education, and especially the university system that represents nearly a 1000 years of European tradition, to the point where higher education is used as an indicator of 'immigrant fitness' in most countries that use a 'merit' based criterion for selecting immigrants. The greater the level of education the better the fit seems to be between the immigrant and the host society when considering net immigration to the West from other areas of the globe. An uneducated illiterate laborer is likely a terrible fit for instance, but as years of education increases the average compatibility improves. One major push for instance is the spreading of education to the masses, which is truly in my opinion an honorable goal, has the added effect of spreading and increasing the cultural hegemony of the West. My imagination of this is basically Abe Lincoln sitting bored at his computer endlessly hitting 'ENTER' to win a culture victory on Civilization.
If we consider for instance the perspective of 'seeing like a state' in the context of understanding foreign governments the mass adoption of Western norms of government has made the whole world 'legible' both in an imperialistic as well as real-politic diplomatic sense of global relations. Non-government organizations also have a similar 'ease' in dealing with foreign countries and local peoples as they can interface with both an international system as well as peoples that have already been exposed to significant Western ideas and concepts through everything from entertainment to education and the way their governments have agreed or been coerced to adopt significant foundational beliefs of the West. Our governments and institutions are staffed with the products of our University systems so the beliefs they adopt from these institutions have significantly greater power than a few uppity 'right wing' billionaires. Robber barons eventually sleep, but it's those who are doing it 'for your own good' are tireless for their crusade is a righteous and moral one. Random billionaires have not got the economic or political firepower to completely upturn a society; however, there are major institutions and governments that do. We should therefore be much more critical of the nature of the beliefs of those who wield actual power over the stupid overexposed wailing of the relatively powerless.
I believe that if we judge the institutions from the frame-work of the left then PMC (professional management class) leftists who are true to their core beliefs would be compelled by their own 'scripture' in essence to tear them down. The culture wars against religion helped to unseat the WASP (white anglo saxon protestant) somewhat from political power and increased the power of social organizations such as universities and government agencies. The issue with the education system is that beliefs that have as much actual 'proof' as scripture in essence can borrow the prestige and credibility of the hard sciences. These cultural beliefs are being presented with the same credibility often as actual hard sciences through the error or myopia of the media. At the end of the day it is the beliefs of the most powerful people in the world that has the greatest impact of human beings, so we should and must question the institutions that exercise power over us. Are we ruled by people with no concept that their shit stinks with nobody to tell them their questionable clothes choices are leaving them looking rather naked? Using the Bible to prove the existence of God is just as circular an argument in essence as using educational credentials as credibility when those credentials are based not on fact but belief. The people who form the parts of the education system working to 'smash the patriarchy' for instance could be viewed from a certain perspective as the actual white supremacists themselves due to their power and the hegemonic nature of their beliefs that are based on culture as clearly as religious beliefs are too formed through culture. From Nietzsche's perspective God is dead; but, from a post-modernist perspective God is very much alive and that could be even more scary.
I like the way you frame things, could definitely use some clarity because I don't really understand the thrust of your argument. Happy to workshop it with you if you're curious.
You might also be interested in this piece about the effect Western cultural exports have on more 'traditional' societies.
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link