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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   33352 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of February 27, 2023

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There is asian overrepresentation in every field involving intelligence and a bamboo ceiling in every subfield requiring a personality

Do you suppose high-caste Indians and Jews have incredible personalities to go along with their intelligence, in the sense that there's «more» of a person there, or a better person? Might this word be deserving of some… scrutiny? This autistic Chinese American guy has an opinion to share:

You, the reader, have probably noticed that up to now, we’ve focused mostly on brains and technical ability. Yes, they are essential, but personality characteristics (both individual and collective) and “soft skills” also matter, especially if one wants to rise to a leadership position. From my personal observation, Indians are, in general, very good at projecting confidence and assertiveness from the way the talk and present themselves, much better than Chinese are, at least in the American cultural context, even when you discount the language barrier Chinese face relative to Indians. I’m talking not only about how one says things in terms of word choice, but the vocal tone and body language behind it. Sure, you can disdain this as superficial, but it matters. Perception matters as much, and in some cases, more, than substance. There is also that Indians seem to have a stronger network and help each out more in the career world. Collective intelligence or ethnic nepotism, you be the judge.

I have stories to tell on this. First of all, I remember vividly how when I interned at the same place as an Indian schoolmate, he was the only one who scheduled, successfully in a few cases, coffee meetings with executives, as an intern (!!!!!), when it never would have occurred to me, or probably almost everyone else except him, to even try. One can sort of link this to collective intelligence, in that it is an indicator of discernment with regard to who matters (the executives) and who doesn’t (the engineer worker bees) within the political organization. And needless to say, you rise up in the organization by aligning yourself with the people who matter. Yes, my telling a full-time engineer this was met largely with a response in the likes of, “He knows who matters and who doesn’t. And even if he completely fucks up, he has nothing to lose, he’s only a 2nd year college intern. In any case, he gets good practice interacting with people who matter.” There is also that multiple people I know have complained about blatant Indian favoritism in interviews in the likes of what is described in this Quora answer. Yes, others have told me that when Indians interview other Indians, the bar is much lower. It’s not just in interviews. Another guy told me about how he once worked for a company that turned into ruins after Indian managers protected some Indian fuckups from getting fired. Personally, I have seen a case of Indians getting promoted way faster than those of other ethnic groups on a big team with an Indian director. So sometimes, I ask myself the verboten. Could it be that Indians really are far higher ranked in tech companies than their ability and contribution, because they are much more self-promoting and collectively nepotistic than those of other groups? Moreover, could it be that many people secretly think and resent this but are too afraid to say out of fear of being publicly vilified for “being racist” and having their careers ruined from alienating a national group increasingly powerful in corporate America? And that gradually, other groups, as they awake to the rigging of the game and get past, reluctantly, their moral objections, will quietly do the same, transforming tech companies and the American workplace at large into literal prison gangs contend, destroying whatever is left of the ideal of meritocracy and fair play in this country, ever more mired in identity politics?

I remember Lynn (probably) writing that black people, too, tend to have «winner personalities», just of a slightly more combative mold, which makes teachers intuitively assume that black students must be smarter than what those ignorant, culturally biased formal tests might indicate: always speaking up in class, not ashamed to ask questions, proud, undeterred by criticism or low-class background… basically model grinning Americans from cartoons and stock photos, who don't even need no Tony Robbins to coach them into success. The other side of that is surprising lack of real success, and probably stuff like this too. The Chinese are more known for videos of this kind. As you say, your struggle with China is racial. So, which way, Western man?

Aside from suggesting that the Chinese aren't full-fledged human beings because something something not emotionally reactive enough, do you have an idea of a perfect American? Less like the Chinese, more like Indians, Jews, Blacks? Or do you suppose that Whites are the only group that's properly balanced? I've criticized them the last time and could go on with mockery, but would you mind making a positive case?

because they are much more self-promoting and collectively nepotistic than those of other groups?

Yes. I have anecdotal evidence generated by my lying eyes, but Indians tend to be prolific nepotists in my part of the world (Dubai). And given 35% of the population is Indian, I think I have a decent enough sample size to base this assertion on.

Anecdotes of an Indian from a specific village/township in India entering the management of a company and the company suddenly becoming a foreign outpost of that village is a dime and a dozen. In the West, Indians are probably less granular in their nepotism in that a manager might favor South/North/X Caste/{whatever tribalism you can conjure up} Indians over other Indians, or even other Desi's (Not Pakistanis) if they are proportionally not large enough yet, but the pattern will eventually lead towards the guy's village if not his extended family as they grow in numbers. The KPMG offices here had to purge their upper management and CEO a few years back because the Indian managers were doing what they do best. Unfortunately for KPMG they hired an Arab!! who did the exact same thing before half the company revolted against him and got him to step down.

Otoh, I can't speak for the entire world, but no one comes second in nepotism to the Lebanese. The "Lebanese Mafia" as they are called here have taken over just about entire industries to the point that people joke you are better off having gone to "AUB" than Harvard if you want to work in Media/Consulting here.

Yes. I have anecdotal evidence generated by my lying eyes, but Indians tend to be prolific nepotists in my part of the world (Dubai). And given 35% of the population is Indian, I think I have a decent enough sample size to base this assertion on.

This is true for most immigrant ethnic groups, though. It's no secret that up until the 60's and 70's policing, municipal waste management, and teaching were all ethnic patronage jobs in most major American cities, with the specifics of which group got what depending on the particular ethnic mix of the region (e.g. Polish ethnic interests mattered in Chicago, but not NYC.) Germans also were famously ethnocentric in the midwest up until about WWI (when it became very politically touchy to speak in German or be overly-sympathetic to the Kaiserreich) however, the fact that they were largely in farming and small communities limited their reach.

I don't think this is really comparable to the «Indian Cordyceps» so aptly described by Moldbugman.

Related take from Razib.

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