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naraburns  nihil supernum  1yr ago (text post)   31630 thread views

Culture War Roundup for the week of January 9, 2023

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Okay, but plants and fish can suffer just like we can. Yeah, plants! Plants have coordinated physical responses to harmful stimuli. What makes this not 'suffering'?

That's because kids suffer more easily

What do you mean, exactly? Kids cry when they suffer to get the attention of adults, because they're weak and need to be protected while they mature. That's also where the intuition that the welfare of children matters more comes from. Adults cry less because they can explicitly solve problems. Does this necessarily correspond to a 'depth of suffering'?

Okay, but plants and fish can suffer just like we can. Yeah, plants! Plants have coordinated physical responses to harmful stimuli. What makes this not 'suffering'?

This is definitely a legitimate perspective that EAs consider. Shrimp welfare is big in the EA movement for example. I don't know if plants have qualia though.

What do you mean, exactly?

I mean if you take the exact same negative event, and consider its impact on you as an adult vs as a kid, its impact is gonna be lower on you as an adult. E.g. getting a shot at the doctor's office -- it is gonna cause a lot more distress to kid-you than adult-you.

Is distress the measurement of moral worth? For one, if you instantly die, that doesn't cause distress. If a kid was an experienced meditator and didn't cry at age 3 because they understood the empty nature of suffering, that wouldn't make killing them better. All of the other experiences in life are worth causing, and 'preventing a death' causes all of them to continue.

All of the other experiences in life are worth causing, and 'preventing a death' causes all of them to continue.

Agreed, assuming an individual's life has more experiences to celebrate than experiences to mourn. E.g. I'm pro-choice because my guess is that on expectation, an unwanted child will have more experiences to mourn than experiences to celebrate

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