This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
There are of course other such studies, the one @curious_straight_ca linked is perhaps the best. Oh, regarding the objection about non-representative sample, this just in – looks like it doesn't matter very much.
But what of it? Suppose you technically prove your point, then the other party just pivots to explaining it away with extra racism or legacy of redlining or something, or casts suspicion on your sources (just like that, or with a link to motherjones or something) and demands arbitrary amounts of corroborating evidence; at some point you run out of studies suitable to respond to a specific contrived attack, and the other guy wins, despite the preponderance of evidence. Or, to be precise, you lose the instant you allow yourself to be dragged into the game, because you're not even a player – it's a breakout game for progressives, and you're the wall they throw gotchas at, and compete in who breaks through in the fewest number of moves.
You could just as well say, for example: «I reject your premise that poverty causes crime. It is silly. Of course criminal inclinations cause poverty. Demonstrate that we should assume otherwise» (this is what I honestly believe. People seem to imagine, probably due to media, that modern criminal lifestyle in an affluent country begins with scrappy Dickensian ragamuffins making ends meet or other such nonsense).
Most likely he'll flame out, but if not, you may have a taste of how it feels to be the sovereign. Because, as Moldbug has said in a rare moment of lucidity – sovereign is he who chooses the null hypothesis.
More options
Context Copy link