This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I agree with a lot of what you say, but I think it's hard to speculate what Ukraine will be like by the time they become full EU members or if that will even be possible, considering the possibility that Russia might still hold a lot of Ukraine after a peace deal. A situation like Georgia can't be ruled out.
The Ukrainians don't seem to have a lack of spine, and the Vysehrad Group have shown how the EU is pretty toothless against an awkward squad.
I think this was due to EU institutions designed for horse trading between a handful of Western European countries (ie France and Germany basically) being unable to cope with the amount of veto power each member has when the number of members is almost 30. Currently that’s being fixed with Poland and Hungary acting as the comic book villains against whom we should empower our sensible heroic Eurocrat overlords. If Ukraine ever enters the EU (probably as part of a larger expansion including countries like Moldova, Serbia etc) this will imo be part of a larger deal to seriously empower the Center against member states. Or maybe this doesn’t happen at all and newly anointed eu members Ukraine and Georgia just become another set of US satellites in Brussels. Who knows
More options
Context Copy link
More options
Context Copy link