site banner

Culture War Roundup for the week of December 26, 2022

This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.

Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.

We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:

  • Shaming.

  • Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.

  • Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.

  • Recruiting for a cause.

  • Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.

In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:

  • Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.

  • Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.

  • Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.

  • Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.

On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.

11
Jump in the discussion.

No email address required.

It's a terrible fit for Star Wars.

In Star Wars, the richest person is the Emperor who became rich by using a powerful government to take control of the galaxy and extract their resources violently via taxes. It is quite clearly illustrated in the movies that private sector institutions (Jabba's mafia, Jawa traders, Cloud City) are entirely subservient to the Empire. For example:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=6_P1eWl77vo https://youtube.com/watch?v=q8irC6QMH9A

Johnson's "military industrial complex except pure capitalism ignore government" story doesn't fit this.

Lets consider the explicit historical parallels:

  • The Empire is drawn from Rome story wise and Tsarist Russia/Soviet Russia/Nazi Germany in terms of imagery/musical themes.

  • Lucas has also cited a real life American politician as inspiration for Palpatine. Said politician is famous for anti-Soviet rhetoric and left wing economic policies (wage/price controls, restricting "windfall" profits, rationing goods, wealth transfers).

  • The First Order is more explicitly Nazi in it's imagery.

How does one get Rian Johnson's story to remotely fit either the actual movies or any of the historical inspiration?