This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
As I'm often inclined to do, I'll addend your observations on the lifting community by saying that this exact phenomenon replicates itself in the running and cycling communities. I guess there's an except to that, in that the /r/running community and others like it are kind of rah-rah, blackslappy bullshit that tells everyone they're doing great, and that it's not their fault that they're slow, but that sort of shit doesn't really fly as soon as you're into boards that are actually more performance-oriented. If someone say they're having success running 30 miles per week, the answer is going to be "congrats on the talent, but you'd be a lot better if you ran more". If someone insists that they don't get significant aerobic fitness gains from running big miles at easy paces, the response is going to be, "post your logs and we'll help you figure out what you're doing wrong". Pretty much no one accepts that someone is running 70 miles per week, knocking out legitimate track reps and tempo work, but just stuck at a 21 minute 5K. Doesn't happen, not real outside of legitimate medical issues.
Of course, in both worlds, there are going to be legitimate differences in genetic talent and ability caps partly determined by what you did in early life, but the reality is that the vast, vast majority of people that would like to run decently fast, put on significant muscle mass, or ride up Alpe d'Huez in under an hour can do so with tried and true training methods. The best advice for almost everyone is going to be based on helping them figure out what they're doing wrong rather than coddling people and telling them that it's not their fault.
More options
Context Copy link