This weekly roundup thread is intended for all culture war posts. 'Culture war' is vaguely defined, but it basically means controversial issues that fall along set tribal lines. Arguments over culture war issues generate a lot of heat and little light, and few deeply entrenched people ever change their minds. This thread is for voicing opinions and analyzing the state of the discussion while trying to optimize for light over heat.
Optimistically, we think that engaging with people you disagree with is worth your time, and so is being nice! Pessimistically, there are many dynamics that can lead discussions on Culture War topics to become unproductive. There's a human tendency to divide along tribal lines, praising your ingroup and vilifying your outgroup - and if you think you find it easy to criticize your ingroup, then it may be that your outgroup is not who you think it is. Extremists with opposing positions can feed off each other, highlighting each other's worst points to justify their own angry rhetoric, which becomes in turn a new example of bad behavior for the other side to highlight.
We would like to avoid these negative dynamics. Accordingly, we ask that you do not use this thread for waging the Culture War. Examples of waging the Culture War:
-
Shaming.
-
Attempting to 'build consensus' or enforce ideological conformity.
-
Making sweeping generalizations to vilify a group you dislike.
-
Recruiting for a cause.
-
Posting links that could be summarized as 'Boo outgroup!' Basically, if your content is 'Can you believe what Those People did this week?' then you should either refrain from posting, or do some very patient work to contextualize and/or steel-man the relevant viewpoint.
In general, you should argue to understand, not to win. This thread is not territory to be claimed by one group or another; indeed, the aim is to have many different viewpoints represented here. Thus, we also ask that you follow some guidelines:
-
Speak plainly. Avoid sarcasm and mockery. When disagreeing with someone, state your objections explicitly.
-
Be as precise and charitable as you can. Don't paraphrase unflatteringly.
-
Don't imply that someone said something they did not say, even if you think it follows from what they said.
-
Write like everyone is reading and you want them to be included in the discussion.
On an ad hoc basis, the mods will try to compile a list of the best posts/comments from the previous week, posted in Quality Contribution threads and archived at /r/TheThread. You may nominate a comment for this list by clicking on 'report' at the bottom of the post and typing 'Actually a quality contribution' as the report reason.
Jump in the discussion.
No email address required.
Notes -
I would find it a bit weird to label him either "ethnically Hungarian" or "ethnically Chinese", but if I had to pick, I'd find "ethnically Chinese" a bit better. Maybe "ethnically Chinese but culturally Hungarian". "Ethnicity" and "Race" are pretty fuzzy words with debatable edge cases, and that's because fundamentally they're labels about labels.
"English", "Chinese", "Hungarian", "Jewish", "White", "Han", "Mestizo", "Arab", "African-American" etc. are identity labels, and those often have their own idiosyncratic rules - some are defined by a state, some are associated to traditions of patrilineal or matrilineal descent, some are strongly associated to a language or a religion - often, they have a lot of correlated characteristics, such that people will disagree about membership of various people, or about which identities are mutually incompatible. And "Ethnicity" is an attempt to regroup some of those labels, and, sometimes, to resolve ambiguity, i.e. you can use "Ethnically French" to contrast with having French citizenship.
I'd say that ethnicity is a mix of ancestry, language, and self-identity (the three being often correlated), with a bunch of ambiguous cases - are the francophone Quebecois "ethnically French" ? Maybe, I don't know. They usually aren't described as such, whereas German-Americans who don't speak German might be more likely to identify as "Ethnically German" (right ?), which seems inconsistent, but eh, as I said, each label kind of has it's own rules and it's a fool's errand to expect consistency.
What's less fuzzy is that "ethnicity" is clearly distinct from citizenship - one can be "ethnically Japanes" while being a Brazilian citizen, etc. Same for the distinction between ethnicity and religion. I don't think that there's such a clear distinction between ethnicity and race or ancestry.
More options
Context Copy link